On 26 Jun 2000, 23:06, Mark Fletcher resp moi:
> > I could list several minor issues, but in my way of thinking the only
> > major negatives concern the actual business of eGroups. eGroups is
> > not in the business of hosting mailing lists. They are in the
> > business of selling ads and selling targeted information to
> > information brokers. The mailing lists' service are merely the means
> > to their profits.
> >
> Just a quick correction. We take privacy concerns extremely seriously
> and never disclose individual subscriber information to third parties.
That is not a correction. That is merely a statement to be believed or
not to be believed. I take a precautionary approach on each and every
so called "Privacy Statement" I see. eGroups, themselves, are not
singled out in my distrust of "Privacy Statements." I don't really
believe *any* of them.
No Privacy statement is secure so long as there is a possibility of a
disgruntled employee. It only takes one disgruntled employee to
compromise privacy security measures. It has been written time and
time again, that the greatest threat to a network's security is within
it's own infrastructure. Insiders.
Are *all* your employees happy, Mark? Don't be too sure.
No Privacy statement is secure so long as there are talented hackers
bent on mischief. There is no system in the Internet totally secure
from present or future attempts to invade their computers and take
information. It's been done before and will be done again. "Security"
always follows adversity -- never the other way around.
No Privacy statement is secure when companies fail. No matter what the
Privacy statement stated; no matter what the policy the company held
during better times -- the creditors will win out and can demand
profiles and even credit card info be sold to the highest bidder in
order to recoup some of the loses. See the following article:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-2176430.html
No Privacy statement is secure when companies are sold or merged into
another company. Anything like that happening to eGroups here lately?
We cannot ensure that Yahoo will embrace your Privacy Statements. Can
I see hands in the audience -- how many former Netscape registrees felt
really secure with their registration info getting into the hands of
AOL when AOL took over that company? I dare say none.
No Privacy statement can be believe when the bias of the stater is
clearly beholding to the people who pay them the money that sustains
their business. Were I paying you the same thousands of dollars each
year that your sponsors pay you, then perhaps I would have more faith
in your assurances of privacy preservation, but as it stands, the
subscribers to eGroups mailing list pay you no money and you are not
owing to them at all.
Loyalty is a good thing, but most often in business, it is bought.
> Any information is in aggregate, like "target this ad to all groups in
> this particular category." I'm not sure what you mean by selling
> targeted information to information brokers, but that does not sound
> like something we do.
If that is true, then you should now end the practice of securing
personal profiles of the members (subscribers) of the eGroups lists.
If your sponsors are not wanting profile information for the purpose of
releasing targeted ads, then you have no need for collection of
personal data from eGroups members, do you? Unless you sell or trade
the information, yourself.
As long as you collect personal information from eGroups' list
subscribers, it will be believed that you have some purpose with this
information. Logically, the purpose would be to make money with the
information.
My trust in eGroups would rise immeasurably if eGroups did not have to
know my name and address and my personal habits every time I tried to
subscribe to a mailing list with a different e-mail address.
I am not alone in my beliefs. I call all your attentions to the
following document recently put out by The Electronic Privacy
Information Center (EPIC) and Junkbusters:
"Pretty Poor Privacy: An Assessment of P3P and Internet Privacy"
June 2000
http://www.epic.org/reports/prettypoorprivacy.html
Mark, it isn't just me -- the public in mass just does_not_believe the
Privacy statements of Internet firms. The public will not believe
yours, either.
I also invite everyone to send for an autoresponder I have of a
newsletter article on Internet Privacy. The author states his case
rather well, I think, and really mirrors my own thinking on the
subject. To receive "Preserving your Privacy in the Internet," send a
blank message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Privacy statements themselves, are notoriously ambiguous. Yours is no
exception, Mark. Here is one passage from your Privacy Policy:
"As a general rule, eGroups will not disclose any of your personally
identifiable information except when we have your permission or under
special circumstances, such as when we believe in good faith that the
law requires it."
Now what did you just say there?
(1) General rule: eGroups will not disclose any of our personally
identifiable information
(2) Exception: If we give eGroups permission.
(3) Another Exception: Under {undisclosed} special circumstances
(4) And yet another Exception: When eGroups thinks the law allows them
to do this, even though the law may not necessary be requiring eGroups
to do this.
You can read that statement to be: "We can do anything we want with
your information." That is exactly what it says, once you break it
down.
So really, Mark, who are you kidding? Your Privacy Statement is a
contradictory, convoluted cocktail meant to intoxicate your users into
believing their personal profiles are safe in your hands.
> If anyone has any questions about eGroups privacy policy or anything
> else about eGroups, please feel free to contact me directly.
That is very cowardly invitation, Mark. In private e-mail, lies can be
told unchallenged. They would only get the company line from you in
private mail. We have all already seen that.
Only in a public forum that engages in open discussions, can the truth
be found. Have the guts to invite those whom subscribe to this list to
post their questions and render their opinions about the eGroups
Privacy Policy in a public forum.
Alan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
