On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:58:22 -0800 (PST) Jeffrey Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, murr rhame wrote:
>> At the risk of being even more pro-spam that you, I expressly allow >> limited on-topic commercial posts. Many of my members have commercial interests in the field, either for their own careers, or companies they own. I explicitly disallow commercial postings, with the relevant text from the list charter being: Note from the List Owner: The list has a number of members who work professionally in the field. Their presence raises certain concerns for intellectual property, trade secrets, copyrights, etc for the list and for list postings. The below should give an overview of this area, what I expect of list members, commercially affiliated or otherwise, as well as the intended character of the list. As list owner I expect all list members to be responsible for what they post. The rules are obvious: If there is something your company or affiliations does not want publicised, then don't post it to the list. If you see one of your commercial or other partners post something to the list that shouldn't have been, then don't bring it up on the list -- take it to direct email. Raising such issues on the list will be used as an excuse for removing membership. Please do not use this as an alibi to start adding disclaimers to your posts. You are the members on this list, not your companies. If it isn't your opinion don't write it. If you are reporting someone else's opinion, state it as such. If a post is written as a representative of your company or affiliation, then identify it as such. Adding a signature which identifies your affiliation is not enough. That can be too easily automated and is not an explicit statement of representation. A leading paragraph identifying the source or representation placed above all the textual body including the attributions, will do (keep it short). Commercial grandstanding, advertisements, chest puffing, or other forms of promotion are not appreciated on the list and will be rewarded with removal of membership. The list is an expressly non-commercial venue. It is intended as an intelligent and free discussion by peers in the field, both hobbyist and professional. Membership of the list is not a right. You are here as my guests. This is a private list run as a personal contribution to the field. I trust the list's membership to behave accordingly. Posting to the list may be considered analagous to having a conversation in my living room using bull horns while the windows are open and everyone has tape recorders. There is no secrecy, or control of the dissemination of data once it is posted. And on a final note: Attempting to invalidate or discourage a discussion or avenue of investigation on the list because it strays too close to a commercial project's field or other such interest will be deemed an intentional personal insult and due cause for permanent removal from the list along with all associates. Thankyou. J C Lawrence > Me, too. The vendor (and list participant) asked me first. We worked > out a few restrictions, and I agreed. They can make a general > announcement once every 3 months. And if a reasonable answer to some > query would refer to their product, they should feel free to answer > the query (noting who they are). I had a few complaints after the > first announcement, and posted my rationale asking people to complain > to me if they were unhappy with my decision. It was largely > supported. I've had off-list toast-wars (not up to the level of flames) for the few members I have who regularly walk the edge of the line in regard to commercial postings. Those members don't exact cross the line (they can't, its a hand moderated list), but they regularly approach the line and I equally regularly trim their posts back from the line (which is obvious to the list membership as I annotate the messages I trim). >> We've discussed allowing ads with various restrictions before on >> listmanagers. I've averaged less than one abuse of comercial posting >> privileges a year. Most of those abuses have been a matter of >> degree: excessive length, excessive frequency, off-topic yard-sale >> type post from a regular participant. > Again, that was the bulk of my discussion with the vendor in question. My main offender is a local company who was instrumental in arranging hosting for the list servers etc. They are young, eager, aggressive, and media hungry. The CEO has stated that my posting requitements (which are more than just the above) are, "prissy", but has not attempted to act or persuade against them. The company sponsors and collects articles and columns in regard to the field for their website and then advertise those texts on my list in less than a subtle self-promoting manner (even after I've castrated their postings down). This has raised hackles with the rest of the list who freely admit that my handling of the scene as moderator is acceptable, but seem to think that I and the list are being abused by said company persistently walking the borders of acceptability. Funny really. I've got list members who flame when they think someone is abusing or wasting their moderator's time. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. [EMAIL PROTECTED] He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
