I wanted to point out that I acted a bit hastily in my response. This post
was passed through a board member, and as such, my response was a bit out of
place. However, I would caution all to exercise careful judgement and to
keep in mind the focus of this group and list: to promote the use of
ColdFusion and provide a forum for ColdFusion developers to improve their
skills, as related to ColdFusion. We are all from different walks of life
and philosophies - however, in our group, we are able to ignore any
differences such as ethnicity, citizenship, gender, etc, because we all
share our technology of choice in common. We need to ensure that we
maintain our focus, and allow other technologies, agenda, philosophies, etc,
to remain in their own arenas.
--
Billy Cravens
>From: "Billy Cravens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: OT: Developers' Guild
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:40:04 +0000
>
>To whomever posted this (not hard to figure out, but there's no need to
>point fingers):
>
>This really has no place on this list. This could be arguable, but the
>value of this email to ColdFusion developers is marginal at best. I
>applaud
>your group's attempt to address long-term needs of developers, but that's
>about it (IMHO).
>
>1) This is not related to CF or our CFUG specifically, so it's a bit out of
>scope. This list is COLDFUSION specific, not general development.
>Otherwise, we could get meetings for things like ASP, Java, VB, GeekMeet,
>etc. As such, this makes your message SPAM.
>
>2) To be quite honest, I feel that politics have no place in this list.
>I'm
>not going to say that your issues are not important ("I disapprove of what
>you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice
>Hall, The Friends of Voltaire, 1906) but this is not the venue for
>discussion of those issues.
>
>3) Your group directly goes against the interests of the members of the
>CFUG. Your core goals include policies against H1-B visas and "reducing
>the
>flood ... of semi-skilled workers". Our group includes a number of
>developers that could (arguably, at best, in the second instance) fall into
>either/both categories. (Who defines what "semi-skilled workers" are?
>What
>"action" should be taken? Frightening.)
>
>
>I have no interest in, and I recommend that all members of this list
>refrain
>from, debating the merits of this group. In these trying times, the value
>of free speech and democracy is more important than ever. However, broad
>and indiscriminate solicitation has ABSOLUTELY NO place on this list. I
>will trust the individual who posted this to exercise better judgement in
>the future.
>
>(Questions concerning list policy can be directed to myself or any other
>board member, offlist please)
>
>--
>Billy Cravens
>DFWCFUG Board Member
>
>
>>From: "NTITDG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: OT: Developers' Guild
>>Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:36:19 -0500
>>
>>The next meeting of the NTITDG will be held on
>>Tue., Oct. 23rd, 7:00-8:30 PM in small conference room
>>(Spring Creek is allowing us to use this room free of charge, however,
>>everyone is welcome to buy dinner)
>>
>>It will be held at Spring-Creek Barbeque at 3514 W. Airport Frw. (183) in
>>Irving
>>(1 mile or so west of N. Beltline) -- near OutBack Steakhouse
>>Link to map:
>>http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypMap.py?tuid=7617105&ck=2031958164
>>
>>North Texas IT Developers’ Guild
>>To: IT Developers in Texas
>>Subject: creation of a guild to protect and promote rights, pay and the
>>future of IT developers
>>
>>Initial Goals
>>
>>
>>1. Greatly reduce the number of H1-B visas from the 2001 high of 195,000
>>to
>>less than 60,000 per year.
>>
>>
>>2. Gather and distribute information about jobs and careers in IT.
>>(Networking helps!)
>>
>>
>>3. Research, track and distribute information about advantages of
>>different technologies, such as VB and Java, for long-term planning.
>>
>>
>>4. Make contacts with other groups within IT that have similar goals.
>>
>>
>>5. Take political action, such as contacting members of Congress, to
>>reduce the flood of foreign and semi-skilled workers in IT in the United
>>States.
>>
>>
>>Rationale for these Goals
>>
>>
>>1. From the period of August 2000 to August 2001, the contract rate of
>>senior and mid-level software, hardware and Internet developers has
>>rapidly
>>declined from 25% to 30% in the United States. For example, some rates
>>of
>>$60/hour have declined to $45/hour, or a 25% decline. New jobs for
>>permanent employees have also declined substantially during the same
>>period. Given this steady decline, we will see contract rates of below
>>$40/hour and new permanent positions below $50,000/year by March 2002 for
>>senior developers and below $42,000 for other developers.
>>
>>
>>2. Foreign workers, especially by use of H1-B visas, have increased from
>>about 60,000 per year to 195,000 in 2001. Most of these work in IT.
>>Many
>>of these visas are for 2 to 3 years. This flood of additional workers (to
>>an already crowded IT workforce) will mean continued loss of jobs of U.S.
>>citizens and also lower pay for IT workers in the United States.
>>
>>
>>3. The majority of the members of Congress of 2001 have voted for these
>>increases in foreign workers (in 2000) and seem poised to make even
>>greater
>>concessions to large companies and foreign countries. We need to take
>>political action now to at least slow down this tendency in Congress.
>>
>>
>>4. The majority of the members of Congress and of the news media in 2001
>>seem to still believe that there is a shortage of qualified IT workers in
>>the United States. We need to do the following: (a) educate them to the
>>facts; (b) educate the public to the lack of jobs and future opportunity
>>in
>>IT; and (c) work toward getting U.S. citizens qualified for U.S. IT jobs.
>>Current IT developers need to be re-trained, not laid off!
>>
>>
>>5. During the first seven months of 2001, over 300,000 people in IT were
>>laid off from "permanent positions."
>>
>>If the above issues are a concern to you, please plan to join us on
>>Tuesday, October 23, 2001.
>>
>>
>>
>>Visit our web site @ www.NTITDG.org
>>
>><< winmail.dat >>
>
>
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