At 08:18 PM 1/23/99 -0800, Karl Auerbach wrote:
>
>> This is simply not true. In most societies there are real, physical
>> people and then there are artificial persons, corporations. The
>> existence of the latter is much easier to verify than the existence
>> of the former.
>
>I personally find it very easy to look at a person and say "you are a real
>person". Phantoms and robots are pretty easy to spot.
>
>On the other hand, I tend to find it very hard to look at something that
>says "corp" or "inc" or "ltd" after its name and know anything more than
>that it says "corp" or "inc" or "ltd" after its name.
Karl, in the USA his point is very valid. My wife has a number of
relations, in "Cajun country" that couldn't even prove their right to
American citizenship. The courthouse, in the parish, with their birth
records, was torched back inthe '50's. They are natural-born ... On the
other hand, I am naturalized, I have "papers". MHSC can be verified better
than some of my wife's family, just call the DE state offices, or check
D&B, preferably both. Also, most 14 year olds do not carry any form of
identification. No adult is required to have identification, it is just
inconvenient if you don't. However, a corp must have papers at all times.
>For instance, we *know* that there are one or more humans behind Jeff
>Williams -- nobody has yet invented a machine that passes the Turing test
>-- but we do not know anything about his claimed INEG.
I've spoken with him on the tele. He's real.
>> The creation of a corporation necessarily involves
>> the creation of an audit trail;
>
>The birth of a person usually involves a birth certificate. And people
>generally carry government issued identification papers (drivers licenses,
>passports, etc) around with them.
See above, lottsa folk live a lot of places, in the USA, with no papers of
any kind. Granted, there are fewer every year. Mostly due to attrition.
It's amazing that any of them get caught by the census. A more visible
example are the homeless in San Francisco, many are undocumented.
>Corporations don't carry their articles around and one can never be sure
>whether a corporate spokesman is really speaking for a real corporation
>without doing some background checking.
Try to get a bank account under your corporate name, I had to submit a copy
of the articles, DE paperwork, and EIN certificate. Further, I had to
provide personal ID and a copy of the minutes of the BoD meeting that
empowered me to establish a financial account. That was Wells Fargo in
California, it was just as bad with BankOne in Colorado.
>On a number of contracts that I have entered into, the corporate parties
>exchanged photocopies of their corporate documents -- either the entire
>articles or simply a copy of the Secretary of State's certificate.
I usually wind up doing both.
>But such an exchange of documents really doesn't prove anything -- the
>documents could be forged or simply copies of real documents being passed
>on by people having nothing to do with the actual corporation.
What you don't know is that you are both supposed to check, with respective
state offices, each others identification. Whether or not either party does
this is irrelevent.
>The interesting twist about corporations is this: Corprations are unable
>to act except through actual living, breathing people.
>
>As such, there is always a significant question whether a person does, in
>fact, represent a particular corporation even if that corporation is
>legitimate.
see above wrt corporate bank accounts.
>It would be unfair to give such a corporate family a multiplicity of
>votes.
why?
___________________________________________________
Roeland M.J. Meyer -
e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Internet phone: hawk.lvrmr.mhsc.com
Personal web pages: http://staff.mhsc.com/~rmeyer
Company web-site: http://www.mhsc.com
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