Stef and all, Excellent post here Stef! Bravo! It is this sprit that made the internet what it is today and remains to be. F2F meetings are fine for grabassing and hobnobbing, to be sure, but certainly a less effective method for getting things accomplished, as Stef has indicated and has been demonstrated many many hundreds of times by the IETF, INEGroup, SBC corp, and other corporations. Heck, that is why all this free and great software was developed in the first place for!!! Why not use it? Einar Stefferud wrote: > This is silly;-)... > > Our problem to solve is to learn to use the Internet in place of F2F > meetings all around the world! And your proposed solution is to hold > Yet Another F2F Meeting YAFTFM). ASAP! This is nuts! > > Lets instead put 1/10th of the same amount of eeffort into being open > and effective in working this stuff out over the net. > > The DNSO/ORG mailing list game needs to be replaced with a better more > public list. So, lets set one up. > > It should have civil discourse rules, ala ORSC, whcih though they are > not perfect, do serve to be very helpful, except in cases where > certain people arte seeking ways to deliverately undermine the > process, and then they atr least clearly expose themselves and their > negative purpose. > > Since the DNSO.ORG mailing list controllers obviously do not know how > to do what is needed, then lets askl someone who does know how to do > it for us. I nominate Richard Sexton for this little task, as he can > do it overnight, and anounce to us all how to subscribe to an open > list. > > I suggest that the list be hosted on a machine under Richard's direect > control to keep things simple. This means that Richard should select > the hosting machine. I suggest the have an alias of list.dnso.net, > and that the list be named <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, in part to convey > that this is a new more open discussion regime. > > There should be no restrictions on who may subscribe. Submissions > might be restricted to subscribers, with a mecahnism for > non-subscriber's msgs to be forwarded to the "discuss" list by an > administrator. This is how Richard handles ORSC non-subscriber msgs. > > This has been very effective, as Richard does not exercise any strict > prohibition, while it protects us from spam and ridiculous floods of > silly mail. This arrangement has not caused any pain for anyone that > I know of. But I do not know everything. if this is a problem, we > shoudl discuss it. (I might wish that Richard would trim up the > headers in the forwarded mail, but that is nit picking;-). > > So, I object to planning a California meeting, as I wodul rather just > stay home, and work tyhis out over the net, and help all our Internet > Newbies learn to deal with these things over the net. > > Remember, I have been doing this stuff now since 1975, when I became > the moderator of one of the very first mailing lists <msggroup>, and > over time, have been involved with sorting out many many issues via > the net, including working with clients, and teching them top use the > medium, and working with the IETF. I am the guy to got the entire > NIST OIW (OSI Implementation Workshop) onto the Internet and got the > FCC onto the ARPAnet, etc, ad nauseum. > > So, I say it is time for this DNSO community to get serous about using > the Internet to get its work done, and quit screwing around with these > silly F2F meetings, which are simply not needed to get out work done. > > I point to the speed and effectivness of our recent ORSC drafting > effort. You all saw us do that and ever participated, so why do we > now want to forget what we just saw, and revert to flying all over the > world for YAFTFM! > > This business of DNSO.ORG ponderously appointing a succsession of > dreafting committees that take 30 days to crank out each new frat in > secret and then drop it on the peasants for comment and anotehr 30 day > cycle is just plain silly. > > Lets just take the lastest draft to the Internet and get on with > discussing it and editing it on the fly in public! Lets demonstrate > that there is a better way to do this stuff than to follow the ICANN > model. It is broken anyway, so why copy it! > > Cheers...\Stef > > PS: Furthermore, IFWP is done and dead. > Lets not spend time trying to resuscitate the carcass! > Its remaining aliveness is fully imbedded in the BWG, anyway! > And it is operating just fine without YAFTFM! > Would that ICANN would learn this lessson! Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Contact Number: 972-447-1894 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 __________________________________________________ To receive the digest version instead, send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To SUBSCRIBE forward this message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNSUBSCRIBE, forward this message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Problems/suggestions regarding this list? 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