>Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Non-member submission from ["Greg Crew" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:56:31 -0400 (EDT) > >>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Jul 29 20:56:29 2000 >Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Received: from hermes.iaccess.com.au (hermes.iaccess.com.au [203.5.74.7]) > by ns1.vrx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47988F10E > for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:56:21 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from gregcrew (as1-124.mel.au.asiaonline.net [210.215.17.124]) > by hermes.iaccess.com.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19380; > Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:46:42 +1000 (EST) >Message-ID: <000301bff9c0$8e6b58a0$7c11d7d2@gregcrew> >From: "Greg Crew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Curtis E. Sahakian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > "jack andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > "eddie sahakian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: You are Turning Away Outside Members Who Attempt To Register >Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:13:36 +1000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Curtis, >The design level of about 10,000 members was not a "hope" as you put it. It >was based on the level of interest we detected in the work of the Membership >Advisory Committee, and the comments received on the AL web page. We "hoped" >for more, but considered 20,000 to be very optimistic. >In the event I personally believe many of the people being encouraged to >join have little interest in ICANN or clearly understand our purpose. The >unfortunate result is that interested people seeking to join late (the >membership enrolement page has been open for several months) are having so >much difficulty logging on. >Another point, well understood by followers of the AL debate - it has always >been intended that the AL constituency should pay its own way (as do the >SOs). We were able to waive a membership fee this first time round thanks to >the generosity of the Markle Foundation. Future membership activities will >have to pay their own way. >Greg >----- Original Message ----- >From: Curtis E. Sahakian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <eric.me >Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 1:12 PM >Subject: Re: You are Turning Away Outside Members Who Attempt To Register > > >> Dear Esther, >> >> Thank you for your response. >> >> You should take another look at your comment that "The problem >> is that a delay would then be "unfair" to those who tried and >> didn't know about the extended deadline, and so forth and so >> on." >> >> To an outsider it sounds more like an insider rationalization >> for disenfranchisement of outsiders... that it would be unfair >> to this disenfranchised class to do anything other than to >> disenfranchise them (other than for a lucky few). >> >> The good white folk of the 50s had many sincere excuses for the >> barriers they erected to disenfranchise black voters. Many of >> these excuses were no less logical than the above. In the end >> it really didn't matter. All the excuses seemed to end up >> supporting and justifying the same results... the erection of >> barriers to the fair representation of "undeserving" elements of >> society. Why? These people were expected to make improper use >> of their votes. >> >> Whether or not that is happening here, if you are the one being >> disenfranchised, it sure feels like it is. >> >> In fact both then and now it seems that the responsible people >> in control found it difficult to even discuss the issue without >> leaking the obvious concern that "these people" can't fully be >> expected to exercise their vote in a responsible way and that's >> why we need the safeguards which...Oops.. seem to have the >> result of reducing their representation. >> >> My understanding was that your staff was hoping that no more >> than 10,000 people would register. The internet is a big place. >> I would propose that you should find it unacceptable if your >> staff is unable to generate at least 1,000,000 registrations. >> >> It is very easy for ICANN to generate huge amounts of world wide >> publicity. I have seen no evidence of it using this ability to >> promote wide scale registrations. From what gets through to me >> in the press, I see an organization from which emanates policies >> and communications that appear designed to discourage >> participation. For instance instead of emphasizing that >> registration is FREE, ICANN appears to emphasize that it is >> going to charge a yet "to be determined" membership fee. >> >> It is the grass roots perception of unfairness that is >> generating what demand for registration there is. >> >> If NSI had carefully attended to the issue of fairness and >> perception of fairness, they would likely still be in control of >> their registration franchise. They didn't and they aren't. If >> ICANN doesn't start proactively addressing this issue in a >> satisfactory manner, the same fait may await it. >> >> I propose that your job entails >> >> 1. not only efficiently running ICANN, >> >> 2. not only running it fairly, but >> >> 3. delivering the appearance of fairness. >> >> You may well be doing the first (running ICANN efficiently). It >> appears to me that you are not doing the second. You are >> definitely not doing the third. >> >> I'd like to encourage you to try doing all three with equal >> vigor. Doing the first alone isn't good enough. Even doing the >> first two isn't good enough. >> >> For you to succeed, you must succeed equally with all three >> deliverables. >> >> What grade would you give yourself on the third deliverable? >> If you reported to someone, and your were that someone, how >> would you rate your performance? How would you rate the >> performance of the ICANN staff? Was the selection of the >> inadequate registration server and the failure to quickly >> upgrade it the result of sinister design, mopery or other >> causes. >> >> Does that even matter? Would you accept any excuses from an >> employee in your own business if they screwed up a subscription >> campaign like this registration process has been... and then >> pretended that it didn't matter? >> >> Doing all three of the above items adequately is better than >> doing the first one very well and the last two poorly. >> >> It may be that this job can be better handled by a politician >> than by an entrepreneur. Maybe ICANN is a venture that needs to >> be de-privatized. >> >> Curtis Sahakian >> 847/676-2774 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> ---------- >> >> > >> > Believe me, we have considered this, and many other options as >> well! The >> > level of interest has simply taken us by surprise. The problem >> is that a >> > delay would then be "unfair" to those who tried and didn't >> know about the >> > extended deadline, and so forth and so on. Meanwhile, that >> would mean >> > delaying the rest of the process, because we also need time >> for people to >> > get their PINs, and then for them to support independent >> candidates for the >> > board. So in the end we decided to keep the schedule as >> is..... The >> > deadline, like most deadlines, is arbitrary anyway, and it >> makes more sense >> > to keep it as is because changing it would cause other >> disruptions. >> > >> > Esther >> > >> > At 12:30 PM 7/28/00 -0400, Mikki Barry wrote: >> > >Esther - >> > > >> > >Given the overload with the server and the other technical >> issues, >> > >wouldn't it be prudent to extend the deadline for voter >> registration >> > >to give another chance to those who have been unable to >> access it? >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > Esther Dyson Always make new mistakes! >> > chairman, EDventure Holdings >> > chairman, Internet Corp. for Assigned Names & Numbers >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > 1 (212) 924-8800 -- 1 (212) 924-0240 fax >> > 104 Fifth Avenue (between 15th and 16th Streets; 20th floor) >> > New York, NY 10011 USA >> > http://www.edventure.com >> http://www.icann.org >> > >> > PC Forum: 25 to 28 March 2001, Scottsdale (Phoenix), Arizona >> > Book: "Release 2.1: A design for living in the digital age" >> > High-Tech Forum in Europe: November 1 to 3 - Barcelona >> >> > > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ph-1.613.473.1719 "The truth is always hard. The only truly punishable offense in Washington is to tell the truth. You will get along in Washington better by lying one way or the other. If you tell the truth you are unlikely to be forgiven." - Prof. Angelo Codevilla, The Washington Weekly, July 17 2000
