Well, as I said before, it's not a wise thing to hold one's breath waiting for MS-Access for Linux, and the question was made in the context of the /Linux/ user's group. So we're not going to be doing much MS-Access or for that matter VB6.
There's also the consideration that the goal was to get familiar with SQL, not a specific graphical query builder/programming system. It's a pretty widely held point of view in the circles that I travel in that just about the worst possible way to learn a language is by using a GUI. We've seen some pretty useless programmers turn out that way, which is why when people ask which is the best IDE to learn Java, we answer "Windows Notepad", and we're not entirely joking. Although here in Linux-land, we all know that the One True Editor is Emacs. :) Actually, MS-Access (and Excel) have been good to me. A great deal of time in one of my earlier incarnations was spent in converting user-created apps from Access/Excel to something that would pass muster in an enterprise. First they'd outgrow the 64k row/1GB table limits of their respective poisons of choice and start hacking ways to push data in and out. Then they'd get tired of that and start looking for a DBMS platform that was more open-ended and that meant engaging someone with the requisite skills and familiarity with the company's usability, audit, and security standards. Or the person who owned the computer that housed the database would get tired of being interrupted everytime someone else in the department needed access. Or the database was on a laptop that was last seen sliding into the lake. Or was stolen at the airport. It's not really recommended to use either MS Access or FoxPro as the backend database for a web application, however. Those particular products aren't designed for use in a multi-threaded environment. Which is pretty much every web server out there. If 2 threads attempt to modify a file-based DBMS, there's serious danger of corruption unless drastic steps are taken to choke everything down through a single pipe. And that's not a function built in (or encouraged) on any webserver I've ever used. Access is fine for quick-and-dirty. I recommend things like Access/VB *Windows) or SQLite/Python (Linux) for prototyping. However, in my case, I'm ultimately paid for industrial-grade products, so the prototypes are just the first stage in more complex environments. If I'm lucky, anyway. One of the greatest tragedies that can befall an application is when its rough draft is dragooned into being the production app. On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 22:56 -0500, Lemington Consulting wrote: > Microsoft Access is a very flexible database, and while it is certainly not > an enterprise class database, it can be very useful in many database > projects, as well as being a very good tool for learning SQL. Most people > see GUIs as a good thing, so the fact that Access requires a GUI to create a > database wouldn't appear to be a negative. > > Access databases are widely used as the data store for many of the countless > Visual Basic 6 applications still out there. And while Access security > limitations prevent it from being used extensively as a data store for web > applications, it can certainly fill that role where data is not proprietary. > In fact we used two Access database behind our web site for several years > with absolutely no issues. You can build .NET applications with Access > database stores if your requirements allow it. > > Access has some great features including its ability to link in data from > other ODBC data stores including SQL Server, Dbase, Paradox, Excel > worksheets, text files, Lotus Notes, QuickBooks and many more. The query > designer in Access allows you to build queries and then view the resulting > SQL that is generated making it a great SQL learning tool. While Access does > not support the full set of SQL commands, it supports the most common ones. > > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/access-help/CH010072899.aspx > > Access is widely used and thus a strong knowledge base and a large user > community exist. For someone running Windows XP SP2 (I would recommend an > upgrade to SP3), you can use anything between Access 95 to Access 2010. We > recently found some copies of older Access versions on eBay at very > reasonable prices. > > As was mentioned by someone earlier, there is also a free version of SQL > Server. I believe SQL Server 2008 R2 Express is the latest version. You can > find the download here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/Database/ > > > David Lloyd > Lemington Consulting > http://LemingtonIT.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: William L. Thomson Jr. [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 5:39 PM > To: Jax-LUG > Subject: Re: Learn SQL at home > > On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 17:07 -0500, Tim Holloway wrote: > > > > However, I think your information on PostgreSQL is a bit dated. > > Nope > > > PostgreSQL has been sweating the details on transactions for a LONG > > time now. Like the expensive commercial DBMS's, it supports > > transaction logging that can be used to ensure database integrity > > across backup/restore operations. > > How is that integrated with PostgerSQL backup tools? > > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/interactive/backup-online.html > > > "The log describes every change made to the database's data files. This log > exists primarily for crash-safety purposes: if the system crashes, the > database can be restored to consistency by "replaying" the log entries made > since the last checkpoint." > > That says nothing about backing up and restoring a database. A log is not the > same as a backup. Seems a log can be used to facilitate a backup, but its > different. > > > I've been doing backups, migrations, and occasional disaster-recovery > > restores on PostgreSQL for a number of years now, and unlike some > > overpriced commercial products, it has never given me an un-restorable > > backup. > > What tool did you use to restore the backup? Can you easily restore from > server A to server B across the network, directly? > > > I've been especially appreciative on that score lately, since I've > > been doing a lot with DB/2, and THEY can't even do a simple > > backup/restore across CPU architectures (i5/Linux), not even counting > > how tedious a basic database clone operation can be. > > You might be blown away with what you can do with Firebird wrt to backing up. > Its also gotten even better with nbackup, much less what gbak is already > capable of. > > > There's no shortage of good SQL DBMS options available under Linux, > > both full open-source and commercial community edition > > There actually is, and more so when you start moving toward enterprise space. > Most times even in FOSS you ask, and people will say MySQL and PostgreSQL. > Firebird won't be mentioned, nor others. > > Also when I started with Firebird, I was on Windows still. Back in the early > 2000's, trying to install PostgreSQL on windows was well, not really an > option back then. One other reason that despite PostgreSQL being on the > Cobalt, I had to use InterBase. > > > In fact, SQLite is sort of "built in" to most modern distros these > > days, since a number of system utilities use it for their own asset > > control databases (plus, of course, it's built into Android). Apache > > Derby is another way to get up and running SQL quick. > > Sure, but I do not believe SQLite is standards complaint, not really a good > starting point for learning. > > > About the only SQL DBMS I wouldn't recommend is MS-Access. Although I > > don't recommend waiting around for MS-Access For Linux[TM] in any event. > > MS-Access isn't really a true database. I am not sure what would best > describe it. Most database have no means for you to develop a GUI. But thats > part of Access. Can't really even make an access db without some sort of GUI. > There might be ways but most using Access made an interface in Access to > their Access DB. > > Along those same lines, I have had horrors in the past with Paradox and > FoxPro. Learning lessons that taught me things begin and end with your RDBMS, > its the core, choose it wisely :) > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > Obsidian-Studios, Inc. > http://www.obsidian-studios.com > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information > intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If > you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message. > > Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of > any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 > RSS Feed http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml > Unsubscribe [email protected] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 > RSS Feed http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml > Unsubscribe [email protected] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 RSS Feed http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml Unsubscribe [email protected]
