who used to post here?
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Posted by:</x-tad-bigger> hermann (‘’)<x-tad-bigger>
Posted on:</x-tad-bigger> Tuesday, 21st February 2006
Message:
There seems to be a general avoidance of that topic. And
even though I keep raising the topic, I still avoid the actual
work. The work of looking, the work of listening, the work of
enquiry. The work of challenging my self. And where to
start? Start from my ego, surely. Start with the gathering of
myself. How do I gather myself? Don't ask how. Don't ask
why. In self-gathering, what is being gathered? Not just the
stuff of self, surely. In self-gathering, the ego would break
down the bounderies of self. Would become the
representative of mankind. Ah, that's too scary for me. Far
too scary. But is there another choice? Yes: my everyday
hopeless misery. Am I prepared to see that reality without
reservations? Fragment or whole? What is it for me?
<x-tad-bigger>Go back to Kinfonet Study Group</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>Posted by:</x-tad-bigger> hermann (‘’)<x-tad-bigger>
Posted on:</x-tad-bigger> Wednesday, 22nd February 2006
Message:
hello hug, there may be some confusion about k's usage of
"effort" and "work", but the real problem may be a different
one. If there is confusion only about k's semantics, we can
focus in on the problem easily. K uses both words a
thousand times. In fact he often distinguishes between these
terms. Effort always denotes the movement of the ego.
Something I want to achieve. And I make every effort to get
there. Work, on the contrary, is a challenge to the ego. Work
is what we run away from, what the ego avoids. It is honesty.
It is seriousness. There are honest problems and dishonest
problems. The dishonest problem is the stone in my sligshot.
I use it to create confusion, perhaps under the guise of
seeking clarity. The honest problem is a thing of beauty, the
dishonest problem is a trap to carefully step around.
<x-tad-bigger>Go back to</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>Posted by:</x-tad-bigger> Richard (‘’)<x-tad-bigger>
Posted on:</x-tad-bigger> Wednesday, 22nd February 2006
Message:
<<The work of looking, the work of listening,>>
Yes, the work of looking, the work of listening is not a doer doing something and it not setting back and doing nothing. It is work happening without a worker.
On 23-Feb-06, at 11:09 AM, rob j wrote:
<x-tad-bigger>rob: permit me to follow Merv’s lead of sharing </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>his perspective – however i don’t mean to </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> presumptively attempt to pre-empt your interest</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> in a search for K quotes to settle how K tended</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> to use it. (the thing about K is he used words</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> descriptively – not precriptively like paper gurus</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> who want to ‘fix’ things)</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>to my reading, K used work to refer to</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> things getting done and he used effort</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> to refer to thought attempting to orchestrate</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> work (hence his dismissal of effort)</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Hermann, i know you’d like to get some K passages</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> on the two terms -- and please share them with us</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> when and if you do – but how would you characterize</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> the distinction between work and effort?</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>From:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] </x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>On Behalf Of </x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>Merv</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Sent:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:29 AM</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>To:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> Greg VanTongeren'; Hermann Janzen</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Cc:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> 'k'</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Subject:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> Re: My begging bowl</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Effort is the result of the ego trying to do something. Something higher than the ego is needed.</x-tad-bigger>
The ego cannot change itself. It must change without effort and it just happens if your attitude is correct.
If you see yourself working to change yourself, you have not learned your lesson yet. It is a matter of pride.
<x-tad-bigger>----- Original Message -----</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>From:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>Hermann Janzen</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>To:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>Greg VanTongeren'</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Cc:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger>'k'</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> </x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Sent:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 AM</x-tad-bigger>
<x-tad-bigger>Subject:</x-tad-bigger><x-tad-bigger> My begging bowl</x-tad-bigger>
Greg, there was a time, and it isn't that long ago, when you helped me out
with some research on the word trust. Now a similar log-jam has arisen at
kinfonet about the word "work", as k uses it, especially in distinction to the
word "effort". If that hypothetical daughter of yours who does your research
for you is still active and willing, do you think you could prevail on her one
more time. I cover myself in sack and ashes to once again come before you
with my begging bowl. Humble greeting from the well-known anonymous.
