Hi everyone, interesting dialogue about using AA batteries. I did not know you can use them, but now that I think about it, why not. I am very new to the electric vehicle world, and electricity in general. Do you want to have batteries that have high amps so the wattage is greater? Anton
----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Kuzma<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] listserv Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12 Shawn, I was simply calculating to run 120volts. I was under the impression (based on an EV parts store online) that the Zilla was only good to 156 volts. I just looked again and noticed that there are other models within the 1000amp setup that they make. Would there be any range advantage to gain by running at a higher voltage. I know most people take out the clutch like Bob did, but I am toying with the idea of a hydrolic pump/drive system that functions as a CVT system so that I can keep the motor at the sweetspot of efficiency while having the most amount of torque available to the wheels. This would reduce the amount of electrical load that the system will see, requiring less amperage to pull from the battery system...in turn extending the range capability. ~Best, Scott Kuzma On Jan 14, 2008 5:33 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Send listserv mailing list submissions to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org<http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of listserv digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: listserv Digest, Vol 6, Issue 10 (Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Shawn Waggoner \(FLEAA\)" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "'FLEAA Mailing List'" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:38:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [FLEAA] listserv Digest, Vol 6, Issue 10 At the 54Ah of batteries in a 2500 lb car, I would venture a guess at a 30-35 mile range. To get a safe 50 mile range, I would almost double the pack capacity. Also, are you basing your pack voltage of 120VDC on a particular controller and its limit? Or are you using 120VDC based on one of the conversations over the weekend? Most conversions that are based on the Curtis controllers tend to be 120-144VDC, but most of the Zilla installations are over 156VDC, some as high as 360VDC. Bob's truck which was at the meeting is 120VDC, but Matt's Nissan is 300VDC – both use Zilla controllers. Shawn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Scott Kuzma Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 5:18 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] listserv Digest, Vol 6, Issue 10 Shawn had the understanding of my arrangement correct with 18 cells in parallel per pack, and 80 packs in series. I like the sound of Frank's idea of using diodes. If they induce a voltage drop that I must sacrifice, then I don't see why I couldn't offset this by using one or two additional packs to total up to 132 or 144 volts. Where do the diodes go? Between each pack, or each cell? I know what a diode does, but nothing beyond that...especially when talking about an application like this. I would definitely need assistance in this department. With the vehicle weight being approximately 2500 pounds, and a desired driving range of 40 - 50 miles per charge, how many AH's should I aim for with a 120 - 144 volt system? I recall Andrew Roddy mentioning that the battery pack in his eBOX was 600 pounds. Is that the batteries alone, or batteries plus casing? At 15 grams (.033 pounds) per AA lithium battery, my estimated battery-only weight would only be 47 pounds. This is great for keeping the vehicle on a diet, and if the worst case scenario of having to double the capacity had to occur, I would be at about 100 pounds of battery weight. Of course, this would also offset the weight of the wallet which would be much lighter as well. ;) ~Best, Scott Kuzma On Jan 14, 2008 4:03 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: Send listserv mailing list submissions to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org<http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of listserv digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Battery information... (Scott Kuzma) 2. Re: Battery information... (Jim Millener) 3. Re: Battery information... (Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)) 4. Re: Battery information... (Frank Leslie) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Scott Kuzma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:38:00 -0500 Subject: [FLEAA] Battery information... Greetings everyone, This is Scott from the meeting that we had this past weekend. I came up with an interesting idea, but have no idea if it's possible. Basically, what is there to stop the use of a Lithium AA battery from being used to power the vehicle? I have found a AA with a 3ah rating at 1.5 volts. If you bundled at least 80 packs together, you would get the needed 120 volts. If each pack had 18 units within it, totaling 1440 cells. 1440 x's 3ah = 4320ah. I'm not familiar with how many ah would be needed. Can anyone provide an estimate for a 2500 pound car. The other concern is that Lithium powered EV's seem to always have a heavily detailed diagnostic system for the battery packs. How ultra-critical is this? If I had a highly efficient cooling system to maintain the battery temps in a safe range, would I also need to monitor the voltage of each battery pack? I'm trying to figure a budget-minded way of doing this without an exotic charger/controller. Pie in the sky? Throw me a bone. ~Best, Scott Kuzma ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jim Millener" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "'FLEAA Mailing List'" < [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:49:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Battery information... http://batteryuniversity.com/<http://batteryuniversity.com/> JCM II, Inc. 6574 N State Road 7 PMB 102 Coconut Creek , FL 33073 Ph: 954-345-2253 Cell: 954-803-3375 IM: Jim Millener ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Scott Kuzma Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:38 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [FLEAA] Battery information... Greetings everyone, This is Scott from the meeting that we had this past weekend. I came up with an interesting idea, but have no idea if it's possible. Basically, what is there to stop the use of a Lithium AA battery from being used to power the vehicle? I have found a AA with a 3ah rating at 1.5 volts. If you bundled at least 80 packs together, you would get the needed 120 volts. If each pack had 18 units within it, totaling 1440 cells. 1440 x's 3ah = 4320ah. I'm not familiar with how many ah would be needed. Can anyone provide an estimate for a 2500 pound car. The other concern is that Lithium powered EV's seem to always have a heavily detailed diagnostic system for the battery packs. How ultra-critical is this? If I had a highly efficient cooling system to maintain the battery temps in a safe range, would I also need to monitor the voltage of each battery pack? I'm trying to figure a budget-minded way of doing this without an exotic charger/controller. Pie in the sky? Throw me a bone. ~Best, Scott Kuzma ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Shawn Waggoner \(FLEAA\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "'FLEAA Mailing List'" < [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:56:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Battery information... Hi Scott, On your pack idea, if you had 18 cells in parallel (still at 1.5 VDC nominal), you would have a 1.5V pack at 54Ah (18 * 3Ah), string 80 of those together and you have a 120VDC (1.5V * 80) pack at the 54Ah. While this would be smaller than a normal pack and on par with a pack of AGM batteries (Orbitals, Discovers, etc), it would require a lot of wiring and connections. It is very doable though, it just depends on what the cost of the AA cells are compared to the AGMs. On the Battery Management System (BMS) for the pack, they are there to help keep the batteries at the same voltage and working together, both during charging and discharging. Having that many batteries (even 25 AGMs can be a problem) poses issues with keeping the batteries in balance. When the batteries are out of balance, one cell or group of cells, works harder than the other and is prone to failure. Once one or 2 cells fail, the likelihood of others following suite are good, ultimately causing the pack to fail. This can get very costly very quick! In a nutshell, the more advanced the battery chemistry, the more regulation is required to keep them working properly. Hope that helps! Shawn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Scott Kuzma Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:38 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [FLEAA] Battery information... Greetings everyone, This is Scott from the meeting that we had this past weekend. I came up with an interesting idea, but have no idea if it's possible. Basically, what is there to stop the use of a Lithium AA battery from being used to power the vehicle? I have found a AA with a 3ah rating at 1.5 volts. If you bundled at least 80 packs together, you would get the needed 120 volts. If each pack had 18 units within it, totaling 1440 cells. 1440 x's 3ah = 4320ah. I'm not familiar with how many ah would be needed. Can anyone provide an estimate for a 2500 pound car. The other concern is that Lithium powered EV's seem to always have a heavily detailed diagnostic system for the battery packs. How ultra-critical is this? If I had a highly efficient cooling system to maintain the battery temps in a safe range, would I also need to monitor the voltage of each battery pack? I'm trying to figure a budget-minded way of doing this without an exotic charger/controller. Pie in the sky? Throw me a bone. ~Best, Scott Kuzma ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Frank Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "'FLEAA Mailing List'" < [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:03:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Battery information... Scott, If there are 18 strings at 80 cells in series each (if that's what you meant), the voltages add for 120V, but it's still 3 Ah. Then putting 18 of these strings in parallel, the total Ah is 18 times 3 Ah = 54 Ah. The cell watt-hours = 1.5V times 3 Ah = 4.5 Wh each, and it's limited by the weakest cell in the string. If you can stand diode drop, put a diode in series with each string to a summing junction (the output). The voltage is then 120V - 0.7V = 119.3V for silicon diodes or 119.6 for Schottky diodes. Whichever string has the highest voltage will discharge first, dropping to where the next string adds more current, and very shortly, all strings contribute equally. Frank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Scott Kuzma Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:38 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [FLEAA] Battery information... Greetings everyone, This is Scott from the meeting that we had this past weekend. I came up with an interesting idea, but have no idea if it's possible. Basically, what is there to stop the use of a Lithium AA battery from being used to power the vehicle? I have found a AA with a 3ah rating at 1.5 volts. If you bundled at least 80 packs together, you would get the needed 120 volts. If each pack had 18 units within it, totaling 1440 cells. 1440 x's 3ah = 4320ah. I'm not familiar with how many ah would be needed. Can anyone provide an estimate for a 2500 pound car. The other concern is that Lithium powered EV's seem to always have a heavily detailed diagnostic system for the battery packs. How ultra-critical is this? If I had a highly efficient cooling system to maintain the battery temps in a safe range, would I also need to monitor the voltage of each battery pack? I'm trying to figure a budget-minded way of doing this without an exotic charger/controller. Pie in the sky? Throw me a bone. ~Best, Scott Kuzma _______________________________________________ listserv mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org<http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org> _______________________________________________ listserv mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org<http://floridaeaa.org/mailman/listinfo/listserv_floridaeaa.org> _______________________________________________ Florida EAA mailing list [email protected] http://www.floridaeaa.org
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