McCain: $300 Million for a Better EV Battery http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/blogs/marty_blog/driving/mccain-300-million-for-a-better-ev-battery/
for the one who figures it out :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:22 AM Subject: [FLEAA] ultracaps > > >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:55:40 EDT >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] afstrinity >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> Mike, >> If you check out the website, the cost differential listed by the >> manufacturer is just over $8,000 for the whole system. The batteries are >> not selling >> for $20,000. True, it would cost about that for a traction pack >> suitable >> for >> an all electric EV. But prices are coming down. There is a guy by the >> name >> of Zack Radding who is building a kit lamborghini who lists the cost of >> 23 >> kWh worth of thundersky lithium phosphate batteries at $15,000. A rep >> that I >> talked to at GAIA was telling me that their pricing goal is $0.75 per Wh >> by >> the end of this year. Also, most manufacturers are advertising cycle >> lives >> between 1500 and 2000, even 20,000!? for altair nano. Advertised cycle >> life >> even for good lead acid cells is only 400. Maybe the batteries in the >> computers >> don't last long, but that is no longer a fair comparison. The batteries >> now >> marketed for traction packs are different animals. Even so, how many >> cycles >> did you put the computer batteries through during those two years? >> I'm not trying to light you up or anything, I just have to respectfully >> disagree that lithium batteries are a problem. The only problem is the >> up-front >> costs. In the long run, even if they fall short of published specs to >> the >> same degree as lead acid batteries can, they are still cost effective. >> On the subject of the hybrid at hand, Cool! I think George and I were >> talking briefly at the last meeting about the subject of using ultracaps >> in >> an EV >> drivetrain. My thought was to simply wire them in parallel with the >> battery >> pack and use them to compensate for voltage sag on acceleration and soak >> up >> current during regeneration. This would spare the batteries wear and >> tear >> and >> reduce peukert related losses. He was talking about using the ultracaps >> as >> a separately controlled power source. This would be more complicated, >> but >> would spare the batteries more effectively in the same way and extend >> range >> more than my idea. AFIK, they will be putting a cap pack into the Jetta >> we tore >> apart yesterday. I also mentioned the possibility of using my EV as a >> test >> mule for development as it runs higher voltage and regenerates. It will >> be >> interesting to see how all of this turns out. >> I guess that's my $0.02 worth. I'd love to hear more discussion on >> these >> subjects. >> Matt Kramp >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) >> > > Just thinking about the immediate questions that come from people > skeptical > about electric cars. The cost of batteries is almost an immediate concern > because of the myths that are out there. People are led to believe that > the > cost of the batteries that will need to be replaced in 5 years negates all > advantages to buying just just buying gas with their existing car. We all > know there are many other costs to be considered. A 144 volt pack of > lithium > is at least $15,000 or more depending on where they come from. Using > chinese lithiums are kind of scary due to the quality concerns. I am sure > there are many people that have gotten batteries from china and had no > problems but I dont want to be the one that has problems and loses alot of > money being the unfortunate son. Just one case out of 50 would be greatly > hammered on by the skeptics making it look like a problem overall when it > really isnt. > > Ultracaps and lead acids seems to be the way to go at the moment with the > caps and batteries in two separate packs. take off on caps has been > proven > effective with the trinity. but to be able to take off on caps, cruise on > batteries and then have the caps recharge from another source other than > the > batteries we could greatly extend range and the life of the batteries. I > have put forth a goal of 1000 amps for 15 seconds at 200 volts to the caps > companies and have gotten responses that yes, it is possible to do that > with > just caps. The cost is about $8,000 but that is a high end goal. > > The trinity opened the subject and why its not being tested further with > existing EVs. I will never know. the ultracaps are not hugely expensive. > > If your EV could be available for testing by all means lets do it! If we > cracked this open and got it working we would give a great boost to EVs > reaching 100 miles or more without NIMH batteries. > _______________________________________________ > Florida EAA mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.floridaeaa.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.18/1658 - Release Date: 9/7/2008 3:30 PM -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com _______________________________________________ Florida EAA mailing list [email protected] http://www.floridaeaa.org
