At the risk of stating the obvious if the seacock is melting due to fire you either will be watching from the life raft or dead. I have all Marelon fittings on my boat. I had one bronze seacock added by the PO for ac cooling water. It disintegrated in my hand one spring while flexing it before launch. I've since replaced it with Marelon. Bob PDQ 36 Peace
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lee Huddleston Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Marina Fire Actually, Ed, I don't feel lucky at all about this issue. (Am damned lucky to have a boat and good friends with lots of knowledge on the list.) But, I don't know the best way to solve the problem. Marlon is pretty strong for most conditions and certainly does solve the electrolysis problem, but it has this one weakness. Bronze would solve the fire danger but definitely cause electrolysis problems. Stainless would solve both problems but looses its "stainless" properties under water. Hmmm?? Having just written that last sentence makes me wonder. If stainless essentially becomes mild steel under water, so what? My whole boat is mild steel. Now it is time to tap a different deep well on knowledge possessed by the list members, metallurgy. Does stainless steel under water just act like mild steel or does it become weaker or more brittle? And, are any losses in strength or flexibility minor enough to be outweighed by the fire and electrolysis advantages? BTW do I ass! ume correctly that mild steel seacocks are not available in the sizes that I would need? Thanks in advance for all of you willing and able to share your knowledge and experience on these questions. Lee Huddleston s/v Truelove -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Kelly Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Marina Fire The fact that the plastic thru-hulls melt, and also need lubrication is documented by Calder. One just has to ask one question quoted from a great movie: "Do I feel lucky? Well do you?" <ironic smile> Ed On the hard at Crackerboy Yard, Ft Pierce preping boat for new standing rigging & general maintenance with 4 month countdown to Atlantic crossing to Azores & England Ed Kelly from USSV ANGEL LOUISE web postings at http://twitter.com/CaptEdKelly On Jan 12, 2011, at 1:45 AM, "Lee Huddleston" <[email protected]> wrote: > Ben, > > Your story about a fire onboard was scary. I am glad that you were able to get it under control. I, too, own a steel-hulled boat and have been known to tout the advantages of steel when given the least opportunity. You have just given me one more reason to like steel. The contents may be flammable but at least the hull is not. > > I can foresee a potential chink in the armor, however. If a person uses Marlon thru-hulls and seacocks to avoid electrolysis problems, the Marlon could melt or burn, letting the water in. Do you have any solution for this? I really don't want to use brass on or near the steel and stainless steel looses its good qualities if it is underwater and cannot get oxygen. Whenever possible (discharge lines) I am planning to weld mild steel pipe directly to holes in the hull and then only adding a seacock to the pipe above the waterline. Of course, for intake lines this is probably not feasible. > > Lee Huddleston > s/v Truelove > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben > Okopnik > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Marina Fire > > On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 04:12:52PM -0600, Lee Huddleston wrote: >> >> Many years ago I read on the liveaboard list a reminder that normal >> bilge pumps cannot keep up with any considerable hole in a hull.- >> Shortly thereafter I happened to be in a Harbor Freight store and saw >> a ?contractor?s mud pump? on clearance. -It was a large centrifugal >> pump directly attached to the shaft of a gasoline engine.- I cannot >> recall the horsepower or the size of the intake (1 + or 2?).- I >> couldn?t resist the purchase.- Later I was able to purchase a >> relatively-long wire-reinforced plastic intake hose from an >> industrial supply >> house.- For the discharge I was able to purchase a fire hose that >> happened to be on clearance as well.- This inspired me find a fire >> hose nozzle at a local fire-control store. > > I was at a Northern Tool store a few weeks ago, and couldn't resist a > similar purchase. Since I have two generators on board as well as a > big inverter, I just bought a big electric trash pump and a > good-quality hose for it. When I got to the boat, I hooked them up, > tested them, lashed the whole thing into a neatly-stowable package > with very light line, and stowed it all in a cockpit locker. It gives > me a nice feeling of additional security to have it there. > > I like your idea of having a nozzle nearby as well; I'll be looking > for one of those. What's surprising is that I didn't think of it > myself - given how much I love multipurpose stuff on board. Oh well... > can't be at the top of the game every moment, right? > > "We should not be crippled by the knowledge that no one of us can know > what all of us together know." > -- John Brunner, "The Shockwave Rider" > >> My question to you and the list is, -assuming that the pump was >> fueled but the hoses not yet attached, would it have been possible to >> use such a pump to suppress the fire on a neighboring boat and save >> it and hopefully yours or would the fierceness of the fire have made such an attempt too dangerous? > > I had a fire on board about 10 years ago; in fact, it was on this very > boat, in the aft cabin, and it grew into a fully-developed fire back > there. I'll quote an earlier email that I wrote about it: > > [I was] making a passage down Delaware Bay, right up near the nuke > plant there. The dry exhaust pipe had been routed close to wood > shelving and was not shielded (!), and combined with the outside temps > which were in the 90s, heated the wood enough to combust. I learned a > bunch of lessons that day: > > 1) I'm truly grateful for my steel boat. I've seen a fiberglass hull > catch fire; it was burning to the waterline in less than two minutes > (I've got time-stamped pictures of it.) > > 2) You *cannot* get close enough to a fully-developed fire for long > enough to do anything useful unless you're coming just behind a wall > of water or foam. The human brain simply shuts down when the > temperature around it is in the 400+-degree range. > > 3) Little fire extinguishers are OK for little kitchen fires, but a > real fire takes real equipment. > > A small crewboat happened to be nearby; I radioed them, told them I > had a fire, and asked them to stand by. They came over, jumped on > board, and took turns with me putting the fire out; none of us could > stand being in there for more than 5-10 seconds - the heat would > literally suck the water out of your body in a flood (all of us > immediately rammed down a quart of water every time we came out of > there.) > > We managed to put it out. I lost a bunch of cabinetry and bedclothes, > and the aft cabin stank of burned wood for a good year despite all the > stuff having been removed and the entire place scrubbed endlessly. Of > course, the exhaust system now has shielding all around it, and the > cabinetry has been replaced, but I'll never forget it. > > > Based on point #2, above, I believe that the rig I have - and surely > the one you have as well - is sufficient to provide that necessary > "wall of water", at least for a small to a medium sized fire (and > that's big judgement call all in itself, too.) Trying to put out a > real fire with anything less than that would be pointless - and could > easily turn fatal. > > So, in short: yeah, I'd crank up my system if a boat next to me was > burning - but I would be a damned fool if I didn't keep an eye on a > *sure* escape route for myself while doing that. Ditto if I didn't > already have my most valuable stuff in my pockets, or in a bag close > at hand. > > > Ben > -- > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led > Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik > _______________________________________________ > Liveaboard mailing list > [email protected] > To adjust your membership settings over the web > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > The archives are at > http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > To search the archives > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Liveaboard mailing list > [email protected] > To adjust your membership settings over the web > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > The archives are at > http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > To search the archives > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
