> On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> HostThread is going to replace thread_t in the sense that you should be able 
> to use HostThread for everything.  But since thread_t is already defined 
> correctly on all platforms, I was just goign to have HostThreadBase store the 
> thread_t.  But I could just as easily have the various implementations store 
> the explicit type (HANDLE, pthread_t, etc) directly.
> 
> I think it's useful to be able to have an empty HostThread object, for the 
> case where we want HostThread to represent a thread we didn't start.  
> Examples include the case where we have an InferiorThread class which stores 
> a HostThread as one of its members, or when you run a "thread list" command 
> and it builds a list of existing threads for some process.
> 
> 

Sounds reasonable.

Jim

> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> This was probably lacking because the only threads really managed by the 
> hosts' thread_t were ones we created, so you'd get your hands on a thread_t 
> by Host::ThreadCreate'ing it, then you could manipulate it with Join, etc.  
> We didn't ever need to use thread_t for threads that already existed in lldb.
> 
> I don't quite understand:
> 
> "HostThreadBase is going to store a thread_t"
> 
> I thought to some extent HostThreadBase was going to replace thread_t.  Then 
> HostThreadPosix would store a ptid_t as a matter of its implementation (and 
> presumably a Handle on Windows?), but I'm not sure why we would need to 
> expose that.  If you wanted to get all the threads in lldb, that seems to me 
> something you'd ask the Host and it would return a list of HostThreadBase's.
> 
> BTW, in this context I wonder if we need Create, or if that should be a 
> constructor?  Would there be any use for an empty HostThread object that you 
> planned start up as a worker later, or would it be better to have a NULL 
> HostBase* (or empty unique pointer) and then construct into it?
> 
> Jim
> 
> > On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:39 PM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I meant a constructor that takes a tid_t seems useful.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> > BTW, one thing I was stuck on in my original patch.  It seems I can go from 
> > a thread_t to a tid_t on MacOSX via pthread_threadid_np.  How do I go the 
> > other direction?  HostThreadBase is going to store a thread_t.  But a 
> > method that returns a tid_t seems generally useful.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:34 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:33 PM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll proceed as discussed in the earlier thread where I listed the 
> > > interfaces, minus the Suspend / Resume.  I'll keep an eye on this thread 
> > > though in case anything else comes up.  Thanks for trudging through this 
> > > with me!
> >
> > Sounds great!  More thanks always go to the fellow actually doing the work!
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Yes, that sounds right.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:30 PM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thinking about it some more, removing SuspendThread and ResumeThread 
> > > > seems reasonable.  Functionality beyond what is required for dealing 
> > > > with own-process threads can be in a different abstraction which is 
> > > > backed by a HostThread through containment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:12 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Yes, I think there's enough reason to expect we'll use HostThread in 
> > > > ways the C++11 standards committee didn't think of that keeping a 
> > > > wrapper is useful.  Also, Hosts mostly have to have fairly good thread 
> > > > libraries now-a-days, but they don't necessarily have to have good 
> > > > C++11 std::thread implementations, so insulating ourselves here is 
> > > > probably not a bad idea.  OTOH, Greg has been making rumblings about 
> > > > backing the Host thread functionality by std::thread's ever since we 
> > > > decided to require C++11.
> > > >
> > > > Among other teenie reasons for keeping the wrapper, std::thread's don't 
> > > > have "set name".  That may seem trivial, but we get crash logs from 
> > > > Xcode where Xcode is running many lldb Debugger sessions simultaneously 
> > > > (the Swift Playground feature is one among many causes of this.)  These 
> > > > CrashLogs were really hard to read till we got both Xcode and lldb to 
> > > > name all the threads that belong to a given process with the PID of the 
> > > > process.  I would not like to lose this feature...
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, disregard my last message.  I agree with you, the things 
> > > > > you do when you manipulate threads in a debuggee are different.  So 
> > > > > for that you have some other abstraction, but that other abstraction 
> > > > > can still be *backed by* a HostThread
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > If that's the case, is there any reason to not just use std::thread 
> > > > > directly?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 11:51 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > So thread_t says:
> > > > >
> > > > > //  lldb::thread_t          The native thread type for spawned 
> > > > > threads on the system
> > > > >
> > > > > I am pretty sure that was only ever meant to be used for threads 
> > > > > inside of the running lldb.  It seems to me that it will make things 
> > > > > very confusing to try to use it for random threads in some other 
> > > > > process.  The way you manipulate your own threads, and the things you 
> > > > > can do with them, are very different from the way you manipulate 
> > > > > threads in the debugee, and what is desirable.  Unless there's some 
> > > > > compelling reason that I don't see right now, I'd like to keep these 
> > > > > two concepts separate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned this a few times earlier, but admittedly the thread has 
> > > > > > grown pretty long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HostThread is a replacement for thread_t.  Anywhere you use a 
> > > > > > thread_t, you can use a HostThread.  This applies obviously to 
> > > > > > threads inside the debugger itself, but also to any other threads 
> > > > > > on the machine.  In the case of debugging process P locally, for 
> > > > > > example, it might be used when viewing or manipulating the threads 
> > > > > > of P.  Even in remote debuggign scenarios, the debugserver might 
> > > > > > use a HostThread to manipulate threads in the inferior.  There's 
> > > > > > already a method in Host called FindProcessThreads, for example.  
> > > > > > Instead of returning a list of thread ids, it could return a list 
> > > > > > of HostThreads.  The size of the class should not be much (if any) 
> > > > > > larger than an lldb::thread_t, it just has extra methods for 
> > > > > > convenience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 11:28 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > One thing I am unclear about, I had thought that HostThread in 
> > > > > > particular would be used for threads IN lldb, but not for handling 
> > > > > > threads in a program lldb is debugging when on that Host.  So for 
> > > > > > instance, Suspend & Resume don't seem necessary or desirable when 
> > > > > > dealing with threads lldb is using for implementing lldb, and 
> > > > > > Launch is possible but quite tricky and not required for remote 
> > > > > > threads on the same Host.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What is the actual story here?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Zachary Turner <[email protected]> 
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do you think about this?  I implement the abstract base 
> > > > > > > class.  I'll give it the following methods:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pure virtual:
> > > > > > > * Launch
> > > > > > > * Join
> > > > > > > * Cancel
> > > > > > > * GetState (enumerated value : invalid, running, exited, 
> > > > > > > suspended, cancelled)
> > > > > > > * Suspend
> > > > > > > * Resume
> > > > > > > * GetThreadResult
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Virtual with default implementations:
> > > > > > > * GetName
> > > > > > > * SetName
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cancel will return an lldb::Error if cancellation is not 
> > > > > > > supported (for example because we're on windows and we don't own 
> > > > > > > the thread routine).  If you think of any other methods that 
> > > > > > > should go here, let me know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Initial patch will go in like this, with no code yet updated to 
> > > > > > > use the new HostThread.  In a subsequent patch, I will change 
> > > > > > > thread_t's to HostThreads, updating code as necessary.  We can 
> > > > > > > evaluate the decision about the typedef vs. the base class at 
> > > > > > > this point, when we see what (if any) impact this will have on 
> > > > > > > whether specific methods will be accessed from generic code.  At 
> > > > > > > this point, if there's still disagreement, I can even make two 
> > > > > > > separate patches - one that does it each way, so that we can 
> > > > > > > compare actual code that uses both methods.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 11:01 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Aug 29, 2014, at 10:09 AM, Zachary Turner 
> > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 9:54 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > SystemLog
> > > > > > > > > ThreadDetach
> > > > > > > > > ThreadCancel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There must be some way on Windows to tell a thread to exit at 
> > > > > > > > the next cancellation point?  Can you really not cancel a 
> > > > > > > > worker thread's operation?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not an arbitrary thread, no.  You can forcefully terminate it 
> > > > > > > > (with caveats, and it may not work and/or have unexpected 
> > > > > > > > behavior, so it is strongly discouraged), but generally if you 
> > > > > > > > want to gracefully cancel a thread, the thread has to have 
> > > > > > > > specific code in its run loop to make that possible.  So it 
> > > > > > > > might work for threads that we create inside the lldb process, 
> > > > > > > > since we control the thread routine, but it wouldn't be 
> > > > > > > > meaningful for threads in other process.  The reason for this 
> > > > > > > > discrepancy is that there is no concept of signals on Windows, 
> > > > > > > > which I assume is how thread cancellation is implemented behind 
> > > > > > > > the scenes on posix platforms.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't think thread cancellation requires signals for same 
> > > > > > > process thread cancellation for pthreads, but it does use kernel 
> > > > > > > support.  The system defines "cancellation points" - e.g. select, 
> > > > > > > read, etc. where a thread is likely to sit waiting, and 
> > > > > > > pthread_cancel just marks the target thread so that if it is in a 
> > > > > > > cancellation routine (they're pretty much all kernel traps) it 
> > > > > > > gets killed off, otherwise the request is postponed till the 
> > > > > > > thread enters a cancellation point and then it gets killed.   I 
> > > > > > > don't think you would need signals for this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But it is something we need to do for all our ports, since we 
> > > > > > > rely on this for shutting down the Process worker threads 
> > > > > > > cleanly.  Since we only really care about canceling threads we 
> > > > > > > create, I think it would be okay for ThreadCancel to be a no-op 
> > > > > > > for other threads.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > GetAuxvData
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Before my original HostInfo refactor, it also had these 
> > > > > > > > > methods:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > GetUserID
> > > > > > > > > GetGroupID
> > > > > > > > > GetEffectiveUserID
> > > > > > > > > GetEffectiveGroupID
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Those methods were just as accessible to anyone writing 
> > > > > > > > > generic code.  They are *less* accessible now, because they 
> > > > > > > > > are on HostInfoPosix.  And this happened without needing to 
> > > > > > > > > introduce any platform specific pre-processor defines into 
> > > > > > > > > generic LLDB.  There was maybe one exception, which Jason 
> > > > > > > > > Molenda pointed out earlier, which was the GetOSBuildString.  
> > > > > > > > > And that only happened because GetOSBuildString is not a 
> > > > > > > > > generic concept!   The design worked exactly as intended, 
> > > > > > > > > exposing a place where code that was intended to be generic 
> > > > > > > > > actually wasn't as generic as it thought it was.  Everywhere 
> > > > > > > > > else, the GetUserID, GetGroupID, etc methods were only being 
> > > > > > > > > called from specific code (which is how it should work), but 
> > > > > > > > > after my change this is now enforced by the compiler.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But again, if I'm writing code it seems like a real pain to 
> > > > > > > > have to answer the question "is this an interface I can use in 
> > > > > > > > generic code" be:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For now you can if it exists in all the HostThreadXXX.h files, 
> > > > > > > > but of course if somebody introduces another platform and 
> > > > > > > > decides that they don't want to implement this function then 
> > > > > > > > you can't use it anymore and have to put
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > #if defined
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > guards around the usage.  Instead, we should look at the host 
> > > > > > > > interfaces and say there are three classes of things:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1) Things you must implement in order to port lldb to a host
> > > > > > > >     These should be pure virtual methods in HostFeature.h
> > > > > > > > 2) Things you can optionally implement, but there's a 
> > > > > > > > reasonable "couldn't do that" fallback
> > > > > > > >     These should be virtual methods in HostFeature.h
> > > > > > > > 3) Things that are purely host specific.
> > > > > > > >     These should be methods in HostFeatureMyHost.h, and can 
> > > > > > > > only be used in HostOtherFeatureMyHost.h, but never in generic 
> > > > > > > > code.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This would make the job of folks working in generic code clear, 
> > > > > > > > and also make it obvious to the next porter (OpenVMS, anyone?) 
> > > > > > > > what they have to do.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm ok with doing all of this.  I'm all for having the compiler 
> > > > > > > > catch things for you, and if one of the things it can catch for 
> > > > > > > > you is "you need to implement this method" then that's great.  
> > > > > > > > That said, I'm still rather fond of the idea of typedefing 
> > > > > > > > HostFeature to HostFeatureMyHost and then having everyone use 
> > > > > > > > HostFeature.  No matter if you do it or don't, it's still 
> > > > > > > > equally easy to write specific code from generic code.  You 
> > > > > > > > could just do this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > #if defined(__APPLE__)
> > > > > > > > ((HostFeatureMacOSX&)feature).AppleSpecificMethod();
> > > > > > > > #endif
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > as opposed to this
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > #if defined(__APPLE__)
> > > > > > > > feature.AppleSpecificMethod();
> > > > > > > > #endif
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My feeling about this is since you'd actually have to do:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > #if defined(__APPLE__)
> > > > > > > #include "lldb/Host/windows/HostFeatureMacOSX.h"
> > > > > > > (((HostFeatureMacOSX&)feature).AppleSpecificMethod();
> > > > > > > #endif
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope at that point you'd know you've gone off the reservation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In both cases though, the person has felt strongly enough about 
> > > > > > > > it to put it in a pre-processor guard, so the decision has 
> > > > > > > > already been made.  And the second method has the benefit that 
> > > > > > > > when you're writing specific code (which I anticipate to write 
> > > > > > > > alot of for Windows), you just always have the type you need.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

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