On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 21:48, Reid Kleckner <r...@google.com> wrote: > I want to take the other side here, and say that I appreciate that the > board is trying to provide more structure for this decision making process. > I don't think the board is trying to step in and take ownership of the > decision, they are trying to solicit input and reflect it back to LLVM > developers in an efficient way. It has long been clear that LLVM needs a > more effective process for building consensus and making decisions, and in > the absence of that, the board came up with this ad hoc process. That seems > very reasonable to me. >
Ad-hoc isn't really sensible for such an important thing. We have done this before, so it's not lack of prior art either. In every past similar situation it has been the consensus that the board does not decide on technical matters. They may help, organise, spend resources, gather information, build tools, but the ultimate decision is up to the community (whatever that means). So far, the harder technical decisions (for example, migrating to Github), have been taken after enough consensus was built in the list and enough discussions happened in the conferences, until such a day the vast majority agreed it should be done. There are three main pending issues: * Bugzilla, where everyone thinks we have to change but GH issues are nowhere near complete enough. * Phabricator, where we're mostly in favour of GH PRs, but there's still at least one major hurdle, patch sets. * Mailing list, where it's a pretty even split, with the IRC/Discord split being a major counter-example. Hosting on github vs self-hosted was a small change, and most people were in favour, but the problem was mostly around monorepo vs submodules. Starting a discord channel is not something people need "permission", but it did fragment the just-in-time interactions. Starting a Slack channel or whatever is the new thing would be the same problem, but nothing too terrible. However, code review, technical discussions and bug tracking are pretty core to how we all interact, and we should not have more than one of any of those things. so, whatever decision is taken it will be a decision to *move*, not add. This is a pretty serious decision, and I believe we'd have a lot less friction if we do in the same way we did the Github. Proposals, discussions, BoF sessions and a final decision when it's clear that the majority of the community is on board with the changes. But to get there, we'll need to hash out all issues. Right now, the discussion is around patch sets, and until that gets sorted, we really shouldn't even try to use PRs. It may take less then 30 days, it may take more, but that discussion must happen in the list, not in a working-group or in the foundation board's meeting. This is how we've always done it so far and it has been working well. At least most people I know think that this is better than most other alternatives, including ad-hoc decision making plans. cheers, --renato >
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