Hi,
A few things.  First of all, thanks for everyone for expressing their
opinions, but remember that in ASF votes for a given module only
committer votes are binding (for logging-logj, that's
ceki,mwomack,hoju,psmith,sdeboy,yoavs @ apache.org), so don't be
surprised if your vote isn't counted in the final tally.

(Quoting is intermixed from various messages in this thread)

>If users want a feature which log4j can give them nearly
>for free, why not do it? Even if it may not be the optimal
>approach to logging.

There's a general answer to that, which goes to the tune of scope creep
and against the KISS principle.  Much like it'd be a trivial extension
for Sun to add some commons-lang-type utilities to the JDK, but they
don't do it: make a simple and easily extensible core, and let users
extend as they wish, which log4j has done since its beginning.

>3. The issue isn't about domains or other levels. Even when domains
>      are in the stable release, many may choose to stick with simply
>      using levels.

I agree with that.

>*      To give an idea of how I think the levels should be used, This
is
>how I have extended the Level class.  I have added the following
levels:
>
>       CONFIG: Configuration information- system/app specific
properties,
>details of connections made (CORBA domains, databases, JMS)
>       PERF: Performance metrics- our wrapper prepends "perf." to the
>category to allow any performance stats to be handled via a specific
>appender.
<snip, though poster goes on with INFO_LOW, INFO_MED, INFO_HIGH, and a
wrapper to map things around />

The point is that you could extend this class to meet your needs easily.
I also agree with Elias' point that you could use a PERF logger and a
CONFIG logger rather than a custom level for those, but that's not the
main point.  So this is a good example of a very specific use-case that
you have, which wasn't raised that much even among TRACE proponents (the
majority of which think DEBUG/TRACE is good but FINE/FINER/FINEST is
not).

>Personally, I think the TRACE feature is dubious at best.  If it was me
>writing for myself, I'd say -1, but if it makes the user base happy and
>if log4j is truly user-driven, then let's do it.  It's not going to do
>much harm for the rest of us who don't need it.  (But I would have to
>draw the line at adding FINE, FINER, FINEST as well.)

I feel much the same way.

>if(log.isTraceEnabled()) log.trace(<probably very expensive string
>creation>)
>which is less obscuring in the code. After all we are talking about the

>trace-level, the finest grained default level, which means that there
>will be lots of lines like the above in the source! This is one of the
>main reason why it should be included. Readable code is important.

Readability and performance are sometimes at odds.  Your example would
have negligible difference IMHO, but then again readability (unlike
performance) is subjective.

>However, isn't there a potential problem with the fact that many
servers
>include logj4 in the classpath by default?

It's safe to assume relevant components, including commons-logging,
JBoss logging, and others, will need at least a new point release to
accommodate support/integration with log4j 1.3.  That's also our
viewpoint on commons-dev with regards to commons-logging 1.1.

So to summarize my views:
- TRACE is useless to me, but useful to a number of users,
- Domains are an orthogonal approach, not a replacement for levels,
- Log4j is community owned, and maintaining that in letter as well as
spirit (or perception as someone called it earlier) is more important
than pretty much all the technical arguments e.g. code bloat and
backwards compatibility.

>> [ ] +1, Yes, the TRACE would be a useful addition
>> [ X ]  0, I don't care
>> [ ] -1, No, TRACE should not be included

Yoav Shapira



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