I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have probably created more problems than they have solved.
One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead. So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way. On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: > However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before Logback > and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right here in > the archives for this mailing list. > > OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to > know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of > problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components > and expecting them to remain compatible. > > In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with > another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is > still more efficient. > > Ralph > > On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api > where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess. > > On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> > wrote: > >> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation? >> >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >> > wrote: >> >>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years >>> ago either on one of our lists. >>> >>> Ralph >>> >>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Is that worth pointing out? >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long >>>> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though >>>> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual. >>>> >>>> Ralph >>>> >>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion >>>> attached to the issue! >>>> >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers < >>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that! >>>>> >>>>> Ralph >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 >>>>> >>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an >>>>> API too? >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> [image: MagineTV] >> >> *Mikael Ståldal* >> Senior software developer >> >> *Magine TV* >> mikael.stal...@magine.com >> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >> <http://www.magine.com/> >> >> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >> email. >> > > > > -- > Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> > > > -- [image: MagineTV] *Mikael Ståldal* Senior software developer *Magine TV* mikael.stal...@magine.com Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
