On Tuesday 01 March 2011 09:17:35 Daniel Curry wrote:
> WOW!  I've never thought the RHCE exams I sat through as being 'warm and
> fuzzy'.  The exam was broken into two parts, the morning consisted of a 2.5
> hour window to resolve a list of broken issues within the setup and
> configuration of the machine.  Due to the NDA I can't go into the specifics,
> there was only one item that was considered 'easy'.  The afternoon portion
> of the exam was based upon the bare metal installation of a server meeting
> specific security and functional requirements, within 3.5 hours.

The RHCE *is* warm and fuzzy. Yes, I have one. I was an RHCE trainer (but not 
current, I have no plans to recertify for RHEL 6), and I spent 2 years full 
time delivering LPI-aligned training.

I'm also LPI certified. I can't progress through the levels anymore, I signed 
that right away in return for the privilege of making large contributions to 
the exam question pool. I still consider it a fair trade.

And I'm a senior Unix admin at a large ISP (large by local standards), and 
prior.

So those are my credentials. I feel qualified to opine on this matter.

There's nothing hard about the RHCE exam. It consists solely and exclusively 
of routine ordinary things that any Linux admin should be able to do 
blindfold. There's one section where you can include vicious gotchas and 
that's wrt the bootloader. I'm not giving anything anyway in that, it's 
covered in the course materials practicals too with stonkers like 
"mv /bin/bash /bin/bash.gotcha" and the old classic of setting initdefault to 
6. That one is as ancient as sending mechanic apprentices to stores for a 
skyhook.

Point being, anyone who cannot get all or most of the RHCE questions right or 
mostly right does not have a clue what they are doing on a Red Hat box and 
certainly will not be allowed anywhere near my live systems.


> I am a strong proponent for tests the prove skills through active
> engagement, rather than memorization and 'brain dumps'.  I support the LPI
> because I believe in the desire for an agnostic certification that covers a
> generalized exposure and qualification to Linux Systems Administration and
> Engineering.

You appear misinformed as to what the RHCE actually tests. It can best be 
summed up as follows:

"Demonstrated ability to perform a regular stated task in the manner 
prescribed to achieve a defined known result on a known defined platform."

Now that's very narrow as the candidate knows for sure the test box he will be 
tested on is a bog-standard RHEL machine with no funnies straight off the 
install disk. It will have none of the stuff we have to do in real life, like 
build some weird package from source, bespoke stuff developed in-house, or God 
forbid! a proprietary DBMS.

Please note that nowhere in the RHCE is the candidate's fundamental 
understanding of the concepts ever consulted. In fact, it is not even possible 
to do so, nor is it possible to normalize the results - they are too variable 
and not measurable.


> As another person recently pointed out to me: "If you have a brain tumor,
> which person do you want?  The one who has demonstrated through practical
> application his ability to remove it or one that read how to in an exam
> cram/brain dump/study guide?"

That's a false comparison and a degradation of what the LPI exam actually is. 
You ought to be ashamed of yourself for trying to set up that straw man, so I 
shall oblige by tearing it down.

Like I said, I delivered LPI-aligned training for 2 years full time. How many 
students were able to pass any LPI exam solely using "exam cram/brain 
dump/study guides"? None. The ones that passed did so because they actually 
understood the subject matter, could think with it, and could use logical 
reasoning to determine sensible paths to follow.

And guess what? In real life, actually on the job, what my techies deal with 
daily resembles an LPI exam question much more than an RHCE one. I've measured 
it, by actual numbers of support tickets. For every request to add a user with 
access right X and Y there are two tickets for some system giving errors that 
no-one has ever seen before. 

A brain surgeon has an extremely well-defined protocol he must follow in the 
process of dealing with a tumour. He is legally an by medical ethics required 
to do it that way, and doesn't get a license to practise till he has shown 
this. Same with aircraft pilots, deep-sea divers and bus drivers. But do note 
that these jobs do not test fault finding skills. And that is what *we* do all 
day long. So your comparison is faulty.

> When it comes to on the job skills, I really don't care much about a
> person's certifications, so long as the can do the job.  When I'm
> interviewing a person with no provable experience (perhaps an intern or
> college graduate) I look to any certs they may have.  If they have MS or LPI
> certs, I ask for scenarios that demonstrate application, not just
> memorization.
> 
> In the field, it is all about earning money for a job delivered.  If I'm
> charging a rate for a person's skill set, the more proficient that person
> is, the more profit we both can realize from his/her work.  This is what
> matters in business.  Proven skills and their application to making a
> profit.

Well that's true enough. Certs are not a means to an end in themselves, they 
are merely one factor in wide array of factors, and one measurable amongst 
many. It is equally false to disregard exams as it is to trust them solely.

All this assumes that the exam is of a reasonable quality of course. I could 
point you in the direction of Win2k MCSE exams for a counter-point.

So in summary, the RHCE has it's place and is useful.
LPI exams are useful and have their place too.
The two things are diametrically opposed and not much comparable beyond both 
being examinations. Please don't conflate them and let's put this tired old 
argument to rest.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
_______________________________________________
lpi-discuss mailing list
[email protected]
http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-discuss

Reply via email to