Hi Gyan,
Thanks much for your suggestion.
Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as to
how they play together or in some respects if any provide a homogeneous
complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
[HC]: I will add the reference in the draft.
Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 1:51 PM
To: Huaimo Chen <[email protected]>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; [email protected]
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,
Thanks much for your questions.
Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.
Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox or
competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood
reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature
be confusing for operators. Just as it was confusing to me.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf..org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824693892&sdata=4vWmUdR%2BbXWXgjyBAw62Ig%2BxUyKPuq6uucKbrfbNv5w%3D&reserved=0>
[HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two
modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode). The
latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding topology
computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a flooding
topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.
Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as to
how they play together or in some respects if any provide a homogeneous
complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the
solution is complete and holistic. This will also make the overall
specification flow nicely.
I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however
there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Link
state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but really it’s
apples and oranges. Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft for both and
have references linking together as the same algorithm concept and
mathematically however the actual code implementation would vary as the LSDB
link state data structures are completely different.
Later = Dynamic flooding = 2 modes Centralized leader based and distributed
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf..org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824693892&sdata=4vWmUdR%2BbXWXgjyBAw62Ig%2BxUyKPuq6uucKbrfbNv5w%3D&reserved=0>
This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distributed
algorithm see below
6.4<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23section-6.4&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824703852&sdata=FvMPjTxl622QWR0mgEZFUlnwM5rGlRKKdTWSTjPXcBs%3D&reserved=0>.
Area Leader Responsibilities
If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV. In order for Dynamic
Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
topology for the area. The Area Leader may update the flooding
topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
with undue or overly frequent topology changes. If the Area Leader
operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
flooding topologies.
If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
disabled for the area. Note this applies whether the Area Leader
intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
destabilizing the network.
6.5<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23section-6.5&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824703852&sdata=9IDNZX2%2F5FTACbaHZd4faYuNVCx5LXaSjlJUc409ocU%3D&reserved=0>.
Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation
If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
defined by the protocol.
Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
the Area Leader.
If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsibility
of the
network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common
understanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
Former = WG LC
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&sdata=Zqopm1yqpqM1ZD7ObT0BFMIUSJd0iT6Ri2b6vStCJCo%3D&reserved=0>
Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algorithm
to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
Separate question-
In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section 6.5
mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flooding
unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-127. I
would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely separate since
a different function then flex algo values.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf..org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&sdata=MOIfltBuiViPgsuRYDxQ5lDQjIRjP%2BojrhcVN8hwOPI%3D&reserved=0>
Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee)
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,
Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].
Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee)
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
Huaimo
This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very high
bandwidth E-W traffic.
[HC]: Thank you very much.
Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding in
clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the same
as this draft. Please confirm.
[HC]: It seems different.
There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&sdata=Pm51EVp6O2zpw30mvKMJPh6HsoYQbwVzSYOubRRBVq0%3D&reserved=0>
We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure that
this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
[HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs",
which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm.
Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.
Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox or
competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood
reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature
be confusing for operators. Just as it was confusing to me.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf..org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824723756&sdata=RyLoLJDPfL16ZPZF5qzbHZjMTdmemUWu468jtQh9l2k%3D&reserved=0>
Kind regards
Gyan
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,
Thank you very much for your questions and support.
This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic
Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data center
clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the area
leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.
Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Gyan
Mishra <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Acee
Lindem (acee)
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in data
center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood is
decoupled from the physical topology. In the dynamic flooding algorithm
mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and
distributed to all nodes. In distributed mode each mode the area leader
determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topology
based on the algorithm.
This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amount of
redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies. So this
optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing protocol
convergence.
Gyan
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Support it as a co-author.
Thanks,
Yanhe
From: Lsr <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Acee
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the “Flooding
Topology Computation Algorithm” draft. Please issue your support or objection
to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for your
convenience.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf..org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824723756&sdata=8fExZMtHNTeVuZkWgp25GiSyInqOm8M3OAcmG%2B8cWtc%3D&reserved=0>
Thanks,
Acee
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
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Mishra
Network Solutions Architect
M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia
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Gyan Mishra
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Network Solutions Architect
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Gyan Mishra
Network Solutions Architect
M 301 502-1347
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Silver Spring,
MD<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824803410&sdata=t4Vd9hSZ9iq6rD%2BaAz4IglQFcyb3NymrrMMGBVRNaAU%3D&reserved=0>
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[http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email]<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824803410&sdata=X%2B7ErL%2BFWEjLMUTOfGa2BlEM2zz1eJ0u9qc0NaDhJNE%3D&reserved=0>
Gyan Mishra
Network Solutions Architect
M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD
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