I'd also recommend changing, "key names" to "key-ids or key-chain names" since
this is what is actually being advertised.
Thanks,
Acee
On 8/10/21, 11:53 AM, "tom petch" <ie...@btconnect.com> wrote:
From: Lsr <lsr-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of Yaron Sheffer
<yaronf.i...@gmail.com>
Sent: 10 August 2021 14:57
So let me suggest:
<tp>
An offlist suggestion for you to consider
OLD
Thus before advertisement of the PCE security parameters, it MUST be
insured that the IGP protects the authentication and integrity of the PCED TLV
using the mechanisms defined in
[RFC5310] and [RFC5709], if the mechanism described in this document is
used.
Moreover, as stated in [RFC5088] and [RFC5089], the IGP do not provide
any encryption mechanisms to protect the secrecy of the PCED TLV, and the
operator must ensure that no private data is carried in the TLV, for example
that key names do not reveal sensitive information about the network.
NEW
Thus before advertising the PCE security parameters, using the mechanism
described in this document, the IGP MUST be known to provide authentication and
integrity for the PCED TLV using the mechanisms defined in [RFC5304],
[RFC5310] or [RFC5709],
Moreover, as stated in [RFC5088] and [RFC5089], if the IGP does not
provide any encryption mechanisms to protect the secrecy of the PCED TLV, then
the operator must ensure that no private data is carried in the TLV, e.g. that
key names do not reveal sensitive information about the network.
Tom Petch
</tp>
Thanks,
Yaron
On 8/10/21, 15:01, "Qin Wu" <bill...@huawei.com> wrote:
Yaron:
Thank for clarification. I agree to keep the last sentence in the
second paragraph of section 7 as is.
But I prefer to add the addition references in the previous sentence as
follows:
"
Thus before advertisement of the PCE security parameters, it MUST be
insured that the IGP is
protected for authentication and integrity of the PCED TLV,, with the
mechanisms defined in
[RFC5310] and [RFC5709] if the mechanism described in this document is
used.
As stated in [RFC5088] and [RFC5089], the IGP do not provide encryption
mechanism to protect
the privacy of the PCED TLV, if this information can make the PCEP
session less secure then the operator should take that into consideration.
"
If you better wording, please let me know.
-Qin
-----邮件原件-----
发件人: Yaron Sheffer [mailto:yaronf.i...@gmail.com]
发送时间: 2021年8月10日 19:26
收件人: Qin Wu <bill...@huawei.com>; sec...@ietf.org
抄送: draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support....@ietf.org;
last-c...@ietf.org; lsr@ietf.org
主题: Re: Secdir last call review of
draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-05
Hi Qin,
Sorry, but I find your latest proposed text very confusing, because we
should be focusing on integrity protection and not privacy (=secrecy) of the
TLV. So I would prefer to keep the text as-is, with the addition of a reference
to the IS-IS and OSPF security mechanisms that were discussed on this thread.
Thanks,
Yaron
On 8/10/21, 05:00, "Qin Wu" <bill...@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi, Yaron
-----邮件原件-----
>发件人: Yaron Sheffer [mailto:yaronf.i...@gmail.com]
>发送时间: 2021年8月9日 21:44
>收件人: Qin Wu <bill...@huawei.com>; sec...@ietf.org
>抄送: draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support....@ietf.org;
last-c...@ietf.org; lsr@ietf.org
>主题: Re: Secdir last call review of
draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-05
>Hi Qin,
>Thank you for your response.
>* RFC 3567 (for IS-IS) is obsoleted by RFC 5304. Unfortunately RFC
5304 still uses HMAC-MD5, which would be considered insecure nowadays.
>* RFC 2154 is very old and Experimental (and only supports RSA-MD5
signatures). I'm not an OSPF expert by any means, but I'm willing to bet that
there are no production implementations of this RFC. (I'm willing to be proven
wrong).
>Is there another RFC that define a protection mechanism for OSPF?
>All in all, there appear to be no good options for the IGP.
[Qin Wu]Yes, we do have alternatives, see Les's response in the
separate email
"
On 8/9/21, 23:36,"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsb...@cisco.com>
wrote:
For IS-IS security please also see RFC 5310.
For OSPF security please see RFC 5709.
"
>To your last point, when I mentioned decoupling the mechanisms, I
was suggesting to use the extension you define even if the IGP *cannot* be
secured. If you think this is reasonable, please add such text to the Security
Considerations.
[Qin Wu] Okay, how about the following change
OLD TEXT:
"
As stated in [RFC5088]
and [RFC5089], the IGP do not provide encryption mechanism to
protect
the privacy of the PCED TLV, if this information can make the PCEP
session less secure then the operator should take that into
consideration .
"
NEW TEXT:
"
As stated in [RFC5088]
and [RFC5089], the IGP do not provide encryption mechanism to
protect
the privacy of the PCED TLV, if this information can make the PCEP
session less secure then the operator should take that into
consideration
when getting the mechanism described in this document deployed.
"
>Thanks,
> Yaron
>On 8/9/21, 16:09, "Qin Wu" <bill...@huawei.com> wrote:
> Thanks Yaron for valuable comments, please see my reply
inline below.
-----邮件原件-----
>发件人: Yaron Sheffer via Datatracker [mailto:nore...@ietf.org]
>发送时间: 2021年8月6日 3:25
>收件人: sec...@ietf.org
>抄送:
draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support....@ietf.org; last-c...@ietf.org;
lsr@ietf.org
>主题: Secdir last call review of
draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-05
>Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer
>Review result: Not Ready
>This document defines a mechanism (a TLV) to advertise the PCE
Protocol security required (use of TCP-AO and its key ID, or alternatively use
of TLS) within the routing protocol being used.
>* Sec. 3.1: I don't understand why "SHOULD advertise" and not
MUST. Especially given the strict client behavior defined later.
[Qin]: I believe "SHOULD advertise" is consistent with client
behavior defined later, i.e., we apply SHOULD NOT language to the client
behavior.
I am not sure we should change it into strong language with
MUST. Since if IGP advertisement doesn't include TCP-AO
support flag bit or TLS support flag bit, NMS may fall back to
configure both PCC and PCE server to support TCP-AO or TLS. That's one of
reason I think why we choose to use SHOULD language.
>* Sec. 3.1: should we also say something about the case where
both methods are advertised, and whether we recommend for the client to use one
of them over the other?
[Qin]: It is up to local policy, which has bee clarified in the
end of section 3.1. Hope this clarify.
>* Sec. 4: typo (appears twice) - "to be carried in the PCED
TLV of the for use".
[Qin]:Thanks, have fixed them in the local copy.
>* Sec. 7: this phrase appears to be essential to security of
this mechanism: "it MUST be insured that the IGP is protected for
authentication and integrity of the PCED TLV". I would expect more guidance:
how can this property be ensured in the relevant IGPs?
[Qin]:I think mechanism defined in [RFC3567] and [RFC2154] can
be used to ensure authenticity and integrity of OSPF LSAs or ISIS LSPs and
their TLVs. Here is the proposed changes:
OLD TEXT:
"
Thus before advertisement of
the PCE security parameters, it MUST be insured that the IGP
is
protected for authentication and integrity of the PCED TLV
if the
mechanism described in this document is used.
"
NEW TEXT:
"
Thus before advertisement of
the PCE security parameters, it MUST be insured that the IGP
is
protected for authentication and integrity of the PCED TLV
with mechanisms defined in [RFC3567][RFC2154] if the
mechanism described in this document is used.
"
>* Also, a possibly unintended consequence of this requirement
is that if the IGP cannot be protected in a particular deployment/product, this
mechanism would not be used. Please consider if this is likely to happen and
whether we want to forego PCEP transport >security in such cases. My gut feel
(not based on experience in such networks) is that the threat models are
different enough that we should decouple the security of IGP from that of PCEP.
[Qin] I agree IGP security should be separated from PCEP
security. IGP extension defined in this document is used by the PCC to select
PCE server with appropriate security mechanism. On the other hand, Operator can
either use IGP advertisement for PCEP security capability or rely on local
policy to select PCE. If operator feels IGP advertisement is not secure, he can
fall back to local policy or rely on manual configuration. Hope this clarifies.
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