Hi Les,

> it is quite permissible to restrict the meaning of a given term

Yes you are correct. It sure is.

But I just do not get why we are coming with counter intuitive terms in key
specifications.

Kind regards,
R.


On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 11:07 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Robert –
>
>
>
> I have replied to Shraddha’s post – pointing out that there is an explicit
> definition of “application” in the documents.
>
>
>
> I have nothing more to add in response to your comments other than to
> reemphasize that it is quite permissible to restrict the meaning of a given
> term when used in the scope of a document so long as we have a clear
> definition – which we do.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert Raszuk <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 13, 2022 12:25 AM
> *To:* Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for
> draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.txt
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> Yes I very much support Shraddha's msg.
>
>
>
> The term "application" should not even be (re)defined up front, but
> completely removed from the document. Likewise ASLA should be renamed too.
> I thought we had the agreement in subsequent documents to do so. Why not
> fix it across the board ?
>
>
>
> If we look at the dictionary:
>
>
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/application
>
>
>
> I do not see any definition which would even closely fit the real use case
> for this term here. Application is a computer program not a network
> forwarding/protection mechanism like RSVP-TE, SRv6, LFA etc ...
>
>
>
> If someone who is writing real applications - say ticker forwarder - and
> he takes such RFC she or he will be super confused and will start expecting
> his application to have its own bit to be identified directly in the ASLA
> bit mask.
>
>
>
> Thx,
>
> R.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 7:52 AM Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Authors,
>
> Thanks for the bis version of RFC 8919 and the clarifying text on errata.
> The issues raised with respect to the errata have been addressed well in
> the bis version.
> However, I believe that the bis version is also an opportunity for us to
> address any other ambiguities and clarifications and not just restrict it
> to
> the raised errata. RFC 8919 is going to serve as base document for many
> future applications /attributes and a clear definition and documentation
> is necessary for interoperable implementations as well as for future
> evolution of the protocol.
>
> I have below comments on the document
>
> 1. The definition of what constitutes an application in the scope of this
> document is not
>     clearly defined in the document. Currently RSVP,SR-TE, LFA, Flex-algo
> have been defined
>         so it appears that any application that uses TE attributes can be
> defined as a separate application.
>         The TE mechanisms like RSVP, SR-TE and flex-algo have been defined
> as separate applications
>         and it appears features having significantly different
>         forwarding plane is defined as new application. It is not clear if
> SRv6 would be
>         qualified as a new application.
>         LFA for different forwarding planes such as IP, MPLS, SRv6 are not
> separate applications
>         but LFA is defined as a single application.
>         I have also seen many drafts confusing application specific to be
> user application.
>         I  suggest to add a section and describe what is an application
> clearly in the draft that should provide
>         sufficient input on what can be defined as an application from
> ASLA context in future.
>
>
> 2. "   When SABM or UDABM Length is non-zero and the L-flag is NOT set, all
>    applications specified in the bit mask MUST use the link attribute
>    advertisements in the sub-TLV."
>    Applications such as RSVP, SR-TE, LFA already use legacy
> advertisements.
>    This document suggests that if any attribute is advertised with an
> application bit set in ASLA
>    ASLA advertisements MUST be used by that application.
>    Implementations may support ASLA for only some applications.
>    I suggest to add below text.
>
>    Until all nodes upgraded to support ASLA for a particular application,
> different values of link attributes
>    MUST NOT be advertised for that application in legacy advertisement and
> ASLA advertisements.
>
>
> Rgds
> Shraddha
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 8:59 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.txt
>
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
>
>
> Folks -
>
> Please note V01 of the RFC8919bis draft has been posted.
>
> This version incorporates comments received from Bruno.
>
>    Les
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 8:22 PM
> To: John Drake <[email protected]>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <
> [email protected]>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <[email protected]>; Stefano
> Previdi <[email protected]>; Wim Henderickx <[email protected]>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:           draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis
> Revision:       01
> Title:          IS-IS Application-Specific Link Attributes
> Document date:  2022-06-20
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          25
> URL:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlB5e_NMk$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlB5e_NMk$>
> Status:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlMHc2Gn4$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlMHc2Gn4$>
> Html:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlABYFZnP$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlABYFZnP$>
> Htmlized:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlJxHVgye$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlJxHVgye$>
> Diff:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlEG5hZVF$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc8919bis-01__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!GPzaO3U3q5SdDuafGd00fxwDKseki5v69TK_7OWQ6XlbSNK2EwgaJqAIeyd1bbeYOilNpT-2QlLXl7KIf7D24NLUlEG5hZVF$>
>
> Abstract:
>    Existing traffic-engineering-related link attribute advertisements
>    have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  Since the
>    original RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g.,
>    Segment Routing Policy and Loop-Free Alternates) that also make use
>    of the link attribute advertisements have been defined.  In cases
>    where multiple applications wish to make use of these link
>    attributes, the current advertisements do not support application-
>    specific values for a given attribute, nor do they support indication
>    of which applications are using the advertised value for a given
>    link.  This document introduces new link attribute advertisements
>    that address both of these shortcomings.
>
>    This document obsoletes RFC 8919.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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