Hi, Robert:
I think your proposal are valid. 
Option C like deployment can also use such information to select the optimized 
inter-AS link to reach the routers in other domain. 
The final effect will be like the EPE scenario.

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Jul 29, 2022, at 16:44, Robert Raszuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Aijun,
> 
> How does this proposal impacts BGP path selection ? 
> 
> Note that it is common to do next hop self on the ASBRs towards the 
> intradomain. So your proposal would not require any signalling to be 
> effective on a given ASBR. Local decision. 
> 
> Originally I was under impression that you want to enhance TE for option C 
> like deployments. But if not then I see not much point of doing it. 
> 
> Thx,
> R.
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 4:09 AM Aijun Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi, Ketan:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> In the inter-AS scenario, we will not deploy BGP session on each p2p link. 
>> The BGP session exists only within the loopback address of each ASBR pair.
>> 
>> Such deployment is also same in the LAN scenario. Then there is no mesh or 
>> partial p2p link that congruent to the BGP sessions.
>> 
>> But such LAN interfaces are sharing the same prefixes.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And regarding to your comments on Prefix sub-TLV: yes, if we redistribute 
>> such external prefixes into the IGP, then they will be transported within 
>> the associated “External Prefixes TLV”.
>> 
>> But for these stub links, if we configure them as “passive” only( no 
>> redistributed action), then the prefixes of these stub links will not exists 
>> within the IGP LSA.
>> 
>> Attach the prefixes information with these stub links can certainly fill 
>> such gap. There will be no redundancy information.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And, regarding to your comments: “… …- at least let us not go overboard and 
>> repeat the same info in multiple places. ”, this is also the main reason 
>> that we don’t want to use the RFC5316/RFC5392 mechanism to accomplish the 
>> goal for the inter-as topology recovery------there will be many redundancy 
>> information being flooded within the IGP area.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Aijun Wang
>> 
>> China Telecom
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 4:54 PM
>> To: Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
>> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Acee 
>> Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; lsr <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Comments on draft-wang-lsr-stub-link-attributes
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi Aijun,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Please check inline below.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 1:15 PM Aijun Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, Ketan:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> There are situation that such information is necessary: 
>> 
>> When several ASes are connected via the LAN interface, it is impossible to 
>> describe the inter-AS relationship with the current descriptors that 
>> provided by RFC5316 and RFC5392.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> KT> Note that we have BGP running on these Inter-AS links. Even when there 
>> is an underlying LAN, the BGP sessions are p-t-p and maybe a full or partial 
>> mesh. Therefore, I believe representing such a LAN as a mesh of p-t-p links 
>> that are congruent to the BGP sessions is the right approach. I am happy to 
>> be corrected. In any case, I still fail to see how a prefix associated with 
>> the links helps here.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And another scenario is that when these stub links are used to correct 
>> servers, there is no remote-AS, remote ASBR ID information. But we can 
>> distinguish different stub link via their associated prefixes.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> KT> I disagree - such stub links can be identified by their local interface 
>> ids along with their local IP address. Note that we already have the 
>> corresponding prefix being advertised as prefix reachability. So I don't see 
>> the need to repeat. All of this is already overloading IGPs with info that 
>> is not used by IGPs - at least let us not go overboard and repeat the same 
>> info in multiple places. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Please check the new fresh thread about use-cases.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Ketan
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Aijun Wang
>> 
>> China Telecom
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2022, at 15:03, Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Aijun,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Similar to Les, I disagree with you on the use of Prefix TLV as an attribute 
>> of the "Stub Link". The reason is that this attribute is not required for 
>> the identification of a link in BGP-LS (or in IGPs for that matter) that was 
>> the main use case. I also don't see the use of that in Inter-AS links. 
>> Please justify this.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Ketan
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:19 PM Aijun Wang <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, Les:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Please note the references to RFC5316/RFC5392 in 
>> draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11 is for TE scenarios, and what 
>> we are discussing are non-TE scenarios.
>> 
>> For prefixes sub-TLV, would you like to revisit my responses to Ketan, 
>> before make any comments? For your convenience, I can elaborate again to 
>> you——-“The prefix sub-TLV is not the link identifier, it is just one kind of 
>> link attributes”. Is it clear enough?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Based on these facts, I think it is unnecessary to response your other 
>> baseless comments.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Aijun Wang
>> 
>> China Telecom
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2022, at 12:51, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Acee –
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I have a somewhat different take on this draft.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I agree with you that draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11 is 
>> relevant – but I disagree that the lsr-stub-link draft is needed at all.
>> 
>> In fact one of the main points in the extensive discussion of this draft 
>> that occurred several months ago  ( see 
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/8pY4d21J1XOb_GfwgrROJUijLQ8/  as a 
>> pointer to one email in the thread) was that RFC 5316/RFC 5392 are 
>> sufficient to support the use case. This is reinforced by the references to 
>> those two RFCs in the bgpls-inter-as-topology draft.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The other main point (discussed in #3 below) is that the use of a prefix as 
>> a Link Identifier is a flawed concept and has been objected to by many WG 
>> members.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> For these reasons I believe this draft is unnecessary and undesirable.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Given the extensive review of the draft by many members of the WG and the 
>> failed WG adoption, I believe the WG should move on to other priorities. I 
>> understand that the authors of lsr-stub-link have not been convinced and 
>> want to continue to advocate for the draft, but at some point the WG needs 
>> to say we have done due diligence and the WG consensus is NOT to adopt the 
>> draft. The continued discussion of this draft consumes WG resources 
>> (including presentation slots) and diverts WG attention from other work.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>    Les
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Lsr <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 11:37 AM
>> To: Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>; 
>> [email protected]
>> Cc: lsr <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Comments on draft-wang-lsr-stub-link-attributes
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi Ketan,
>> 
>> I’m glad you brought this up. The primary (and AFAIK only) reason for this 
>> draft is to get the stub-link information to a router in the IGP domain 
>> running BGP-LS so that it can be advertised to the controller. For 
>> reference, see 
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11.txt
>>  figure 1. So, the IGP encoding is only to get the stub-link information 
>> from B1 and B3 to S2 and from B2 and B4 to T1. Since the IGPs and TE are not 
>> consuming the information, the problem could be avoid by simply running 
>> BGP-LS on B1-B4. See inline.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Lsr <[email protected]> on behalf of Ketan Talaulikar 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 5:33 AM
>> To: "[email protected]" 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Cc: lsr <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [Lsr] Comments on draft-wang-lsr-stub-link-attributes
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hello Authors,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Please find below my comments/suggestions on this draft. I am sharing them 
>> upfront given the packed LSR agenda.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 1.     Sec 3 the rationale provided for not using the Inter-AS TE LSAs/TLVs 
>> is not sound in my opinion. I would say that the TE encoding may not be 
>> suitable for use in all deployments as their advertisement results in the 
>> addition of those Inter-AS links in a TE topology database and that may not 
>> be desired. So, I would suggest that the draft keeps the option of use of 
>> Inter-AS TE TLVs valid and goes ahead with the Stub Link proposal as an 
>> alternative with broader applicability (also see the next comment).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Agree.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 2.     For the proclaimed wider applicability (e.g., links to servers/hosts) 
>> in the slides, there is no such text in the draft. The draft seems focused 
>> on Inter-AS links. I hope the authors update either the draft or the slides 
>> - to be in sync with their objectives.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It is solely for purposes of advertisement in BGP-LS and consumption by the 
>> SDN controller as described in 
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11.txt.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 3.     The use of the prefix TLVs in this context is something that is (in 
>> my opinion) broken from day 1 of this draft. Prefixes are for reachability. 
>> For identification of links, we have the local/remote link identifiers along 
>> with the local/remote IP addresses (NOT prefixes!). This to me is a NO-GO 
>> for the progression of this document.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I agree, if this draft is to persist, these should be referred to as ASBR 
>> addresses as in the IDR draft (the sole raison d’etre for this IGP draft).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 4.     The placement of the Stub Link TLV should be top-level (similar to 
>> other/existing links). I can share further suggestions offline, provided we 
>> reach an agreement on the above points and we converge on the main 
>> purpose/motivation for this work.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I feel that strongly here as this is analogous to the new BGP-LS NLRI type 
>> in  
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-inter-as-topology-ext-11.txt.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Ketan
>> 
>>  
>> 
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