> But BGP service PIC is the use case this draft is targeting?

For many emails on LSR and beyond I got point from authors against using
BGP for such signalling as "BGP may not be running there at all".

So if the draft works *only* with service provided by BGP let's please
state it clearly in the document. This is not my current assumption.

Many thx,
R.



On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 11:47 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Raszuk <[email protected]>
> *Date: *Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 9:41 AM
> *To: *Peter Psenak <[email protected]>
> *Cc: *Bruno Decraene <[email protected]>, David Lamparter <
> [email protected]>, Acee Lindem <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <
> [email protected]>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] draft-ppsenak-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce / UPA
> IS-IS semantics
>
>
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> > But:
> > - that is nonetheless a change which is non backward compatible with
> people currently using such high metric without the intention to mean UPA
> > - to differentiate different usages (e.g. your UPA, my other usage such
> as "graceful shutdown" (still reachable but will disappear soon), endpoint
> CPU load is 80%...) one
>
> well, the question is whether it would not make sense to trigger UPA for
> the above mentioned usages as well. Because eventually the destination
> is becoming unreachable anyway and I would want my services to reroute
> to alternate egress node. But seems like folks want to have a way to
> differentiate, so I'm not going to argue against it.
>
>
>
> I think You are right if there is a hierarchical service above it.
>
>
>
> But consider flat routing - where there is no BGP service on top. Example
> - some DCs do use flat routing.
>
>
>
> With that I am afraid UPA triggers may not work well (or at all) ...
> especially considering that they are history after the timeout irrespective
> of the remote prefix state.
>
>
>
> But BGP service PIC is the use case this draft is targeting? For example,
> there is no intent to install negative routes throughout the domain.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> > would need to use different metric values that would need to be at least
> locally registered. So why not have the IANA register a flag and avoid each
> network operator to do that job?
> >
> > In all cases, I don't see a reason for UPA to change the meaning of all
> the metric values >0xFE000000. You can pick a single value (e.g.
> 0xFE000001) and that would equally work for your use case.
> >
> > Regards,
> > --Bruno
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I vaguely remember several years back we did indeed implement something
> >>> (seriously no memory on details) that resulted in the creation of a new
> >>> prefix reachability TLV with some experimental/local sub-TLVs.  These
> >>> prefixes did not exist in the IS-IS domain beforehand.  I have no idea
> >>> what the operational reality is on the existence of such things, but I
> >>> know that /some/ code exists that does this.
> >>>
> >>> To boil this down into the core of the essence and be explicit,
> >>>
> >>> - you can create an IS-IS prefix reachability for some arbitrary
> prefix,
> >>>     and stick > 0xfe000000 into the metric, and that won't have any
> effect
> >>>     on the existing IS-IS domain
> >>> - this has in fact been done to carry custom bits of information that
> >>>     for one reason or another were decided to be routing-related and
> thus
> >>>     make sense to put there
> >>> - the assumption for the use case is that there are indeed less
> specific
> >>>     covering prefixes around, providing actual reachability
> >>> - any setup doing that would now suddenly have fresh "unreachable"
> >>>     semantics attached to something that didn't have them before, which
> >>>     breaks things (or rather: prevents enabling/deployment of the UPA
> >>>     feature)
> >>
> >> and why that would be a problem? Such prefix would never be used to for
> >> resolution of the BGP prefix. So the presence of such unreachable prefix
> >> would never trigger any action even of the UPA processing was enabled on
> >> the receiver. I don't see a problem.
> >>
> >>> - (if those extra prefixes are created with 0xffffffff metric, a
> >>>     configurable >= limit for UPA does not help either.)
> >>
> >> again, what is the problem?
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Making IS-IS UPA explicit with a bit, sub-TLV, or whatever else is
> >>> (IMHO) not a significant cost, and completely eliminates this issue.
> >>> The only reason against it (that I can think of) is that the
> >>> advertisement might be a little bit larger;  a new sub-TLV or flag bit
> >>> should be completely invisible to existing implementations (= I don't
> >>> see how this would create compatibility or rollout problems.)
> >>
> >> I'm afraid, you forgot to consider an operational aspect of the
> solution.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -David
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > Orange Restricted
> >
> >
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