Speaking as WG member:

Aijun, 

> On May 11, 2025, at 9:33 PM, Aijun Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Acee:
> 
> The "area range" is not always be configured at the ABR, or the "area range" 
> may not cover all of the prefixes within the area.
> In such situation, if there is no summary LSA advertised for these prefixes( 
> with which their total cost exceed LSInifinity), the routers within other 
> area can't reach these prefixes.
> The network traffic will be discarded wrongly.

The UPA is specifically targeted toward prefixes that are subsumed by a shorter 
prefix corresponding to a summary. 


> 
> And, we can image even another scenario, even the routers within the same 
> area can't reach these prefixes, if they treat the prefixes that the 'total 
> cost' equal LSinifity as unreachable.

> 
> This is one remain bug of RFC 2328. The situation is same for RFC5305/RFC5308
> UPA solution shouldn't depend on such bug base.

There is no bug in RFC 2328/RFC 5305/RFC 5308, prefixes with an infinite metric 
are unreachable by design. 
I'm not going to debate this. 

Acee



> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
> 
> -----邮件原件-----
> 发件人: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 代表 
> Acee Lindem
> 发送时间: 2025年5月9日 22:18
> 收件人: Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> 抄送: Peter Psenak <[email protected]>; lsr <[email protected]>
> 主题: [Lsr] Re: [LSInfinity Features within OSPF is FLAWed, it should be 
> Abandoned, not Enhanced instead] I-D Action: 
> draft-ietf-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce-05.txt
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 9, 2025, at 10:08 AM, Aijun Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, Acee:
>> 
>> If no summary LSA  for these prefixes, then, there will be no LSA for these 
>> prefixes, it leads the same WRONG results—-such prefixes are unreachable in 
>> another area.
> 
> As long as there is at least 1 reachable route subsumed by the area range, 
> there will be a summary-LSA.
> 
> Acee
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2025, at 21:58, Acee Lindem <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Speaking as WG member,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 9, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Peter Psenak 
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Aijun,
>>>> 
>>>>> On 09/05/2025 15:22, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Peter:
>>>>> 
>>>>> UPA doesn’t influence the results of the prefixes that are set to be the 
>>>>> LSInfinity at its originator, but it influences the results of the 
>>>>> prefixes whose metrics are lower than LSInfinity.
>>>> no UPA does not affect prefixes that are advertised with valid metric.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have show you the example in the previous mail—-For example, in 
>>>>> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/ip/open-shortest-path-first-ospf/47864-ospfdb5.html
>>>>>  , when prefix 4.0.0.0/8 reaches to the ABR, it is reachable(prefix cost 
>>>>> is 0xffffff-0x40, lower than LSInfinity).
>>>>> 
>>>>> But after the ABR advertise the prefix in area 1 with the Summary LSA, 
>>>>> its metric will be LSInfinity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> According to the UPA rule, or RFC 2328, every router(includes the final 
>>>>> receiver) within the area 1 will treat this prefix as unreachable, which 
>>>>> is NOT right.
>>>> If the prefix metric is LSInfinity, the prefix is unreachable. UPA does 
>>>> not change any of that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It’s time to fix RFC2328/RFC5305/RFC5308.
>>>> I don't think so.
>>> 
>>> I agree. There is nothing in the UPA draft, that says the unreachable 
>>> prefix will be included in the summary cost calculation. I don't know how 
>>> one would come to that conclusion.
>>> 
>>> Also, for OSFP, in section 12.4.3 of RFC 2328, routes with a metric of 
>>> LSInfinity or higher are explicitly disqualified from the summary 
>>> computation.
>>> 
>>>   o Else, if the routing table cost equals or exceeds the
>>>      value LSInfinity, a summary-LSA cannot be generated for
>>>      this route.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let’s do this together before forwarding the UPA draft?
>>>> no, we are not going to modify the LSInfinity in any way inside or outside 
>>>> of the UPA.
>>>> I'm done with this discussion now.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Peter
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aijun Wang
>>>>> China Telecom
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 9, 2025, at 18:04, Peter Psenak <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aijun,
>>>>>> the problem you have described below has no relevance to the UPA. In the 
>>>>>> UPA case we are deliberately originating the prefix with the unreachable 
>>>>>> metric, so adding anything to it at ABR is not going to make any 
>>>>>> difference, it will stay as unreachable.
>>>>>> As I have replied to you many times the meaning of the LSInfinity was 
>>>>>> defined in the base protocol specification and we are not altering it in 
>>>>>> any way. We are using it the way it was defined.
>>>>>> Regards, Peter
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 09/05/2025 10:55, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, Peter:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I noticed the updated draft includes the new contributors to respect 
>>>>>>> their previous efforts, this should be encouraged within IETF.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But, I must point out that, the direction that Reusing the LSInfinity 
>>>>>>> to advertise the unreachable information should be discarded.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The LSInfinity feature that is defined in RFC 2328 is FLAWED, we should 
>>>>>>> try to fix it, not exploit it again.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Let's give you the simple example, that described in "OSPF 
>>>>>>> Inter-Area Routing" [1] This is one 20 years ago article, it states 
>>>>>>> clearly that when ABR do the summary action, it will add the cost of 
>>>>>>> the prefix itself and the cost of the path between the prefix 
>>>>>>> originator and the ABR together, as the newly cost of the summary LSA 
>>>>>>> for the prefix:
>>>>>>> In the example, the original cost of 4.0.0.0/8 is 10, the link 
>>>>>>> cost between Router 1.1.1.1 and Router 2.2.2.2 is 64, the 
>>>>>>> ABR(router 2.2.2.2) will advertise the summary LSA for 4.0.0.0/8 
>>>>>>> to Area 1, with the cost set to 10+64=74 (please see the output 
>>>>>>> of "r2.2.2.2#show ip ospf database summary 4.0.0.0")
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Then coming the question(let's take the same example):
>>>>>>> If the cost of prefix 4.0.0.0/8 is set to 0xffffff-0x40(64), on 
>>>>>>> ABR(router 2.2.2.2), the cost of summary LSA for prefix 4.0.0.0/8 will 
>>>>>>> reach 0xfffff.
>>>>>>> If the ABR(router 2.2.2.2) follow the guideline of RFC 2328, the prefix 
>>>>>>> 4.0.0.0/8 will be unreachable, and will be not advertised to area 1, 
>>>>>>> router in area 1 can't reach the 4.0.0.0/8.
>>>>>>> But actually, 4.0.0.0/8 is reachable via the ABR(router 2.2.2.2).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If we consider there may be several hops between the prefix originator 
>>>>>>> and the ABR, then the cost of the prefix can't exceed 
>>>>>>> 【0xffffff-(several hops)*(possible link metric)】, which will be varied 
>>>>>>> with different network topology, and can't be considered as one 
>>>>>>> universal value, even a definite range.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Then, such flaw in OSPF 2328, and also the similar mechanism in RFC 
>>>>>>> 5305/RFC5308 for IS-IS should be fixed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The reason that there is no emerged network outrage in these years is 
>>>>>>> that the operator configure seldom the cost of the prefix directly.
>>>>>>> But if we expand the LSInfinity feature as described in this WG 
>>>>>>> document, more chaos, and network outrages will be emerged.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Let's stop forwarding to this direction.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [1]: 
>>>>>>> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/ip/open-shortest-path-
>>>>>>> first-ospf/47864-ospfdb5.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aijun Wang
>>>>>>> China Telecom
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----邮件原件-----
>>>>>>> 发件人: [email protected] 
>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] 代表 [email protected]
>>>>>>> 发送时间: 2025年5月9日 2:21
>>>>>>> 收件人: [email protected]
>>>>>>> 抄送: [email protected]
>>>>>>> 主题: [Lsr] I-D Action: 
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce-05.txt
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Internet-Draft draft-ietf-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce-05.txt is now 
>>>>>>> available. It is a work item of the Link State Routing (LSR) WG of the 
>>>>>>> IETF.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Title: IGP Unreachable Prefix Announcement
>>>>>>> Authors: Peter Psenak
>>>>>>> Clarence Filsfils
>>>>>>> Daniel Voyer
>>>>>>> Shraddha Hegde
>>>>>>> Gyan Mishra
>>>>>>> Name: draft-ietf-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce-05.txt
>>>>>>> Pages: 15
>>>>>>> Dates: 2025-05-08
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the presence of summarization, there is a need to signal loss 
>>>>>>> of reachability to an individual prefix covered by the summary. 
>>>>>>> This enables fast convergence by steering traffic away from the 
>>>>>>> node which owns the prefix and is no longer reachable.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This document describes how to use the existing protocol 
>>>>>>> mechanisms in IS-IS and OSPF, together with the two new flags, to 
>>>>>>> advertise such prefix reachability loss.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix
>>>>>>> -announce/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is also an HTMLized version available at:
>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-igp-ureach-p
>>>>>>> refix-announce-05
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>>>>>> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-igp-urea
>>>>>>> ch-prefix-announce-05
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
>>>>>>> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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