there is "science data" that is never updated (level 0 uncalibrated,
level 1 calibrated/derived).  Pixels are level 0 and object catalogs are
level 1.

The alerts and summaries and etc are derived data products (level 2). 
They can be re-derived on the fly from level 0-1 data if needed. 
But, once "published" you should keep data so that other scientists can 
reproduce the results (that is one of the "rules" of science). 

Level 0 data are never updated. 
Derived data can be updated (aka- discarded  (update is equivalent to
delete-insert). )
Summary data is often updated (but this is often best done in versions.)

The SDSS went to a version scheme (one version per year) to offer
consistently processed data. (it is hard to deal with data where the
meanings of variables changes over time). 

LSST does not have that luxury, and will have to confront this problem
head on 
(since it is real time). 

My guess is that LSST will publish editions where the old data is
reprocessed in the new way. 
The old editions will be frozen and the newly arriving data will be
added to the new edition. 
Summary data can be versioned on a daily basis.

These editions give polynomial growth in storage space (above the simple
linear growth you get as time passes) -- so called "data inflation".  

This is all doable in a world of infinite sized disks (i.e 10TB disk
drives). 

To repeat my song -- we do not have a space problem, we have a
access-per-second problem. 
There is NO problem keeping all versions. 
In your timeframe disks are 100x their current size. 



Jim Gray
Microsoft Research,  Suite 1690, 455 Market, SF CA 94105, tel: 415 778
8222 fax: 425 706 7329 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://research.Microsoft.com/~gray


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Axelrod
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 5:43 AM
To: Jacek Becla
Cc: LSST Data Management; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LSST-data] Re: cpu for queries

Jacek,

Ouch!   I had forgotten that you wanted to do this.  I'm afraid this 
makes more than just the alertid proposal unworkable.  The whole concept
of having summary information for the object, such as a wavelet
decomposition of its lightcurve or even the mean magnitude, that is 
updated as we go along is gone too.   Living with this would be very 
difficult!   What alternatives do we have?

Tim

Jacek Becla wrote:
> Kirk, Ani
>
> There is one small complication with keeping the most recent alertid 
> for each Object: it requires updating existing rows.
> It would be nice to have the design of largest tables such that each 
> row is written one, and kept read-only after that.
> Such approach guarantees reproducibility, and make it more manageable 
> (easier to replicate and distribute).
> Changes/updates would be done through versioning, but I'm not sure it 
> is worth using versioning in this case.
>
> Jacek
>
>

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