Mass protests in Sudan appear to have been significantly successful. https://theconversation.com/how-the-people-of-sudan-pulled-off-an-improbable-revolution-132808
Aryt On Wed, May 27, 2020, 10:15 AM Richard Brooks <[email protected]> wrote: > Waiting for the species to evolve does not seem particularly > useful. Nor does just stating that all forms of government > are equally bad. > > I have seen technical interventions bear fruit: > > -Election monitoring reducing fraud in Senegal, and > post-election violence in Kenya, > -Large-scale protests in Burkina Faso did result in > deposing a dictator and replacement with a democratically > elected government. Which is not perfect, but better. > -Post election coordination in Gambia did result in > dictator YahYah Jammeh being replaced with a democratically > chosen president. Who is not perfect, but better. > (Worse would have been difficult.) > > Good things can happen. Political planning and coordination > is needed and change will need time. My colleagues > talk about working for their grandchildren. > > Hong Kong has multiple problems. No one is going to confront > the PRC. HK is unpopular with the majority of the PRC > population who see them as spoiled. The PRC clearly has more > military and economic might. On the other hand, HK is > useful for the PRC. > > Giving the HK population the ability to send information > to the outside world is not likely to be useful. Giving > them safe and unfiltered communications channels to > access external information and to communicate internally > is probably worthwhile. > > I am not certain if protest might not just lead to an > eventual violent confrontation, although they have > done a good job of keeping the worst from happening so far. > > On 5/26/20 6:29 PM, Raymond Saner wrote: > > thanks Hans, you bring up the old and still relevant question: > revolutionary or evolutionary change? > > we have the old adage in Europe which states: plus ça change, plus ça > reste la même chose and plus ça reste la même chose, plus ça change > > > > best, Raymond > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: LT [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Klein, Hans K > > Sent: 26 May 2020 17:41 > > To: grarpamp <[email protected]>; [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] What could we at Liberationtech do to help > pro-democracy HK activists protest China's new security law? > > > > Well, I would propose a softer version of the posting below. > > > > As currently practiced, liberation technology and its policy partner, > democracy promotion, build on an implicit and overly-simple model of > democracy. It involves catalyzing large public protests that destabilize > governments. > > > > The model supposes that destabilization is followed by "democracy", but > in fact destabilization is more often followed by chaos, civil war, and > foreign intervention. > > > > Libya had a brief democratic moment, but now it has a civil war; so far > the list of interveners includes France, Italy, US, Turkey, and Russia. > Syria had its moment, but then came foreign intervention in the form of > various radical mercenaries backed by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and even the > US. Ukraine had its big demonstrations, but the people in the Maidan were > then given a government hand-picked by foreign powers (See: BBC [ > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 ], Consortium News [ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGq_Xvzn_3I ] .) In every case, the > people (the "demos") of the country came out as the loser. > > > > What is a more effective model of democracy promotion? I think it is > one based on organic growth in the society. Political development takes > time; the clock speed may be measured in human generations. The > successful model requires patient nurturing and no threatening or > attacking. The terrible democracy recession that we have seen in the last > 10 years is in large part a reaction to outsiders seeing democracy as an > act of "liberation", i.e. as a rapid and kinetic process that can deliver > immediate results. > > > > In each case, we can ask what is worse: the problem or the cure? > > Syria: Assad or the civil war > > Libya: Ghaddafi or the civil war > > Ukraine: Yanukovych or the civil war > > (You can pose the same question of Iraq and Afghanistan...) > > > > A useful question would be: given the learning that (hopefully) has > taken place, what could we at LiberationTech do to *effectively* promote > democracy? > > > > Hans Klein > > School of Public Policy > > Georgia Tech > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: LT [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > grarpamp > > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 6:32 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] What could we at Liberationtech do to help > pro-democracy HK activists protest China's new security law? > > > >> What could we ... do to help pro-democracy ... activists ... > >> do things that have not been done in the past. > > > > Stop teaching them that they can somehow break free from whatever > shithole government they're under now by claiming democracy is some magical > font of freedom worth aspiring to. It's not, at all. It's just another form > of same slavery, force, murder, trickery, theft, war, false authority... > > Spread out, infused, diluted, harder to see and kill than their average > dictator, by design... a ruse, a ploy, a trap for confusing the sheeple. > And it worked. > > "B-ah-ah-ah" they all said, "oh please give us that" they begged, while > scrambling over each other in queues hundreds deep to cast discard their > own fates down some worthless memehole in a box... a final act of spiritual > suicide transformed into one of joy by the programming of the wolves that > still rule over all of them. > > > > Regarding "government", there is only one thing that hasn't been done in > the past. > > > > -- > > Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major > commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you > moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, > change to digest mode, or change password by emailing > [email protected]. > > > > -- > Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major > commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you > moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, > change to digest mode, or change password by emailing > [email protected].
-- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, change to digest mode, or change password by emailing [email protected].
