If only it were that simple! Off the top of my head I'd say that Snopes was probably accurate 80% or more of the time.
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 6:16 PM Sawsan Gad <[email protected]> wrote: > With what I've learnt in the past few years: Anything Snopes says is > wrong, is most likely correct. :-) > I now use them for fact-checking in the opposite direction. If Snopes says > no, then the truth is yes. If Snopes says yes, then the truth is no. :-) > > > This email (including any attachments) may include information that is > confidential or privileged only for the designated recipient. If you are > not the designated recipient and reading the content of this message, > your activity is against the sender's will, and the sender reserves the > right to resort to legal action and seek compensation. If you have > received it in error, please delete it from your system without reading and > notify sender. > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 9:04 PM Doug Schuler < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Peter --- It's quite possible that I weigh in in the future on this but >> for now don't quit the list because of my ignorance! >> >> I actually try to some degree to understand a bit of what's actually >> going on. It's not easy. I also hope that well-meaning people with lack of >> knowledge can participate in these discussions. I prefer people holding >> that role to true believers, professional dissemblers, and super spreaders. >> >> I'm opposed to much of US foreign policy and I obviously am way in the >> dark on a large percentage of it. My sense is, however, that the US is not >> the only "bad guy" out there. In fact I'd like to think that the US can be >> something of a "good guy" on occasion. >> >> I'll look into the beyond war perspective. Is this the same group that >> was active in the 80's (or thereabouts)? >> >> — Doug >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 4:53 PM Peter Jones | Redesign < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> You are seriously citing “Snopes” in a list that purports to engage >>> scholarship into serious surveillance, security technology or (in this >>> case) foreign policy issues? >>> >>> >>> >>> Perhaps you didn’t look at any of the references I cited. The most >>> significant issue with Bellingcat is that they are funded and sponsored by >>> a NATO advisory. It is their job to disinform. That is how wars are >>> promoted when you are the aggressor. >>> >>> >>> >>> Higgins has been caught outright lying about his relationship with the >>> FCO and government funding by Hitchens and others on Twitter. These are not >>> arguments, they are misrepresentations. >>> >>> >>> >>> The critical issue here is the cover-up. The lead OPCW field chemist who >>> led the fact-finding mission for the Douma Syria report verified that there >>> was no indication of a chorine “chemical weapons” attack on the purported >>> site. There were two dozen children’s bodies placed in the basement, that >>> were claimed as victims, but they did not die of chlorine. There was no >>> chlorine beyond the level found in normal household use. >>> >>> >>> >>> But the field investigation team’s unanimous findings were deliberately >>> misreported by the OPCW by their (Bush appointed) Dir General, who publicly >>> claimed there was a confirmed chorine release. Which is not revealed by the >>> field findings. That is the real political scandal. >>> >>> >>> >>> The filed team did not state that the filmed scene was staged – that’s >>> outside the purview of OPCW. But that is also the subject of Patrick >>> Watson’s analysis BTW. Read some of the painstaking analysis and you will >>> see why this is suppressed, and why I think very poorly of “Snopes” who is >>> enabling (our) war crimes here. >>> >>> >>> >>> Snopes is also partisan and unreliable in a media ecology that is now >>> hopelessly divided and divisive. Its as much of an establishment tool as >>> exists in the US/UK universe of bought-reporting. >>> >>> >>> >>> If this level of insight on the list persists - I’ll just going to quit >>> the list. I don’t have the time to waste on “liberation tech” that finds >>> favour with the MIC/NATO establishment and its media trolls and is >>> uninterested in learning from actual citizen-led independent >>> investigations. And that are in apparent uncritical support of the $2 >>> trillion / year US/NATO war system that uses mercenary “terrorists” to >>> create events that justify its attacks and regime change programs. Who did >>> you think is paying for the surveillance systems that this list was set up >>> to intervene? Its all the same Five Eyes. >>> >>> >>> >>> I recommend to those interested in our new approach to the peace >>> movement, to find the report on Global Security System at World Beyond War >>> https://worldbeyondwar.org/alternative/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Wishing everyone peace in your own communities in the New Year. >>> >>> >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* LT <[email protected]> *On Behalf * >>> *Subject:* Re: [liberationtech] Intentional Big Tech Leftist Bias in >>> Social and News Media Corrupts Elections and Defrauds Peoples >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks Tom. >>> >>> >>> >>> That seems to clear up some things. >>> >>> >>> >>> — Doug >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 5:17 PM Domestic Caverns < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m not sure if this is what you’re referring to regarding the white >>> helmets, but here is some fact checking on them as a hoax: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-this-proof-white-helmets-staged-chemical-attack/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 2:45 PM Peter Jones | Redesign < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Richard - Its interesting you'd suggest Bellingcat on this list >>> (Liberation Tech) as an exemplar for investigative techniques that purport >>> to identity motive and source. In my observation of their work, they have >>> the resources to conduct very sophisticated study - because that are a >>> dedicated insider info ops (hybrid warfare) group of the NATO-sponsored >>> Atlantic Council - their DFRL organization >>> https://www.digitalsherlocks.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Bellingcat started up two days *before* the infamous MH17 airliner >>> shootdown in Ukraine 7.17.2014 (a problematic case that is still definitely >>> unresolved in the Dutch special court). They immediately entangled >>> themselves in evidence production from the "fog of war" among the various >>> actual investigators on the ground. Their notoriety and founding were >>> started up in sync with this event, which would give them interesting >>> context for their own motives. >>> >>> >>> >>> The founders Higgins and Toler are senior fellows at the NATO DFRLab >>> https://www.digitalsherlocks.org/360-os-2018 which verifies not >>> necessarily a guarantee of income, but at least the level of establishment >>> of their primary client. I’d suspect they aren’t hurting for a job. >>> >>> >>> >>> The goals of the DRFL program are ostensibly to "counter >>> disinformation." But the explicit means of doing so are to construct >>> preferred information that is certified by their vast network of the >>> military complex that requires such "bottom up" narratives to justify >>> their own interventions and weaponization of social media. After all Obama >>> shelled out $250M in his last gift to the Mil Complex December 2016. Also >>> for “countering (primarily Russian) disinformation” which is a neat way of >>> saying “creating disinformation for the public.” All US wars have been >>> started and justified by such information ops long before kinetic actions, >>> and this was done with newspapers before electronic media. >>> >>> >>> >>> Put your McLuhanist hats on. Who has the most to gain from these >>> operations? Who has skin in the game and who is paying for these >>> investigations? Who is working at their OWN risk and conscience to develop >>> and expose (or whistleblow) truthful reporting? >>> >>> >>> >>> The anti-Bellingcats are actual citizen sleuths such as Northern >>> Ireland’ Patrick Watson, who was disgusted by what he saw as obvious fake >>> videos with the White Helmets, used to promote the Syrian “chemical >>> weapons” videos. He did hos own research and blew open quiet a bit of >>> trouble. >>> >>> >>> >>> His website https://hiddensyria.com/ covers a number of his >>> investigations – he’s clearly not a “Russian” anything, as I’ve followed >>> his work from the very first tweet I think (I happened to see his easily >>> outbursts) AND he doesn’t’ have a lot of followers. A troll tries to >>> sensationalize and get a lot of attention. Philip has also worked hard, and >>> at risk, to show the OPCW organization is at fault for covering up their >>> field evidence that exonerates the Syrian government, a very inconvenient >>> finding. There are whistle-blower memos and support from the founding OPCW >>> General Director for their exposure. It’s a significant scandal, and on >>> this issue Bellingcat is arguing (and was caught fabricating) for the >>> establishment, again, and every time, for the wars. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would also confirm regard for the small UK academic team, the >>> Working Group on Syria, Propaganda and Media that has done open sources and >>> deep investigative reporting on the Syrian hoaxes and White Helmets (along >>> with Vanessa Bealey's fieldwork). >>> >>> >>> >>> has also been heavily attacked by mainstream reporters, (Guardian types) >>> and 77th Brigade (the British military info ops soldiers) >>> https://syriapropagandamedia.org/ Because they have been on-0tagert, >>> the BBC and Guardian have smeared their work on front page stories to try >>> to recover their Syrian war “information superiority.” In the shadowy world >>> of information ops, this is a war on real people. And the establishment >>> will lose, over time, regardless of how many more millions they throw at 77 >>> th Brigades and projects like the UK’s FCO-sponsored Integrity >>> Initiative https://syriapropagandamedia.org/the-integrity-initiative >>> >>> >>> >>> Humans with a conscience will always eventually win on social media, as >>> the war narrative is always a drumbeat of the same talking points and >>> arguments. Reality is complex, ambiguous, and subject to surprises – which >>> is what we see in the citizen reporter stories. >>> >>> >>> >>> As a professor I would at least present students with case studies from >>> “both sides.” >>> >>> >>> >>> To a more peaceful 2021, Peter Jones >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *PETER JONES, PH.D.*ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR >>> FACULTY OF DESIGN >>> >>> *T *416 799.8799 <416%20799%208799> @redesign >>> *E* [email protected] >>> >>> *Design Dialogues * <http://designdialogues.com/> >>> *Strategic Innovation Lab* <http://slab.ocadu.ca/> >>> *Systemic Design Association (RSD) * <https://systemic-design.net/> >>> >>> >>> *OCAD UNIVERSITY* >>> *Strategic Foresight & Innovation*205 Richmond St. West, Suite 410 >>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/205+Richmond+St.+West,+Suite+410+Toronto,+Canada++M5V+1V3?entry=gmail&source=g> >>> Toronto, Canada >>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/205+Richmond+St.+West,+Suite+410+Toronto,+Canada++M5V+1V3?entry=gmail&source=g> >>> M5V 1V3 >>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/205+Richmond+St.+West,+Suite+410+Toronto,+Canada++M5V+1V3?entry=gmail&source=g> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: LT <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Richard >>> Brooks >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:39 PM >>> To: Doug Schuler <[email protected]>; Richard Brooks < >>> [email protected]> >>> Cc: LT <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Intentional Big Tech Leftist Bias in >>> Social and News Media Corrupts Elections and Defrauds Peoples >>> >>> >>> >>> The idea of thoughts and ideas being similar to a biological ecosystem >>> has been around for a while. I think that Richard Dawkins, William S. >>> Burroughs, and Robert Anton Wilson all have legitimate claims to having >>> originated the idea. (It is likely to have roots in antiquity somewhere.) >>> >>> >>> >>> The US does have a certain anti-intellectualism deep in its subconscious >>> and at least one (nameless) political party has worked hard to delegitimize >>> science (evolution, economics, climate change, ...). >>> >>> >>> >>> That this would lead eventually to people being susceptible to having >>> their innate biases exploited by other actors, is not surprising. >>> >>> >>> >>> Social media has exacerbated the process. >>> >>> >>> >>> One idea that I have been playing with is trying to introduce somewhere >>> in curricula having students use tools/techniques like those used by >>> Bellingcat to determine the source and motivation of online campaigns. >>> >>> >>> >>> I really am impressed by Bellingcat. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/30/20 2:12 PM, Doug Schuler wrote: >>> >>> > An article in the recent Science magazine talked about a “syndemic” >>> >>> > which >>> >>> > >>> >>> > "is the intersection of two epidemics—two diseases ravaging a >>> >>> > population at the same time, exacerbating each other. HIV weakens the >>> >>> > immune system, for instance, which makes people more likely to develop >>> >>> > tuberculosis. The world witnessed some- thing similar this year. We >>> >>> > live in an eco-system that allows viruses to cross from wildlife to >>> >>> > humans more often and spread farther and faster than ever before—that >>> >>> > gave us SARS-CoV-2. But the virus emerged in an information ecosystem >>> >>> > that helps misinformation and lies spread faster than scientific >>> >>> > evidence, weakening our ability to respond to new threats. That made >>> >>> > the pandemic far worse." >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/370/6523/1395.full.pdf >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Without necessarily buying into the entire metaphor it seems pretty >>> >>> > useful, bringing up concepts susceptibility, vulnerable populations, >>> >>> > super spreaders, mode of transmission, and, of course, inoculation. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > It also fits well into my investigations into civic intelligence which >>> >>> > I believe is threatened like other natural resources. And if it gets >>> >>> > too low, our ability to address our problems cooperatively becomes >>> >>> > ever more helpless. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > I'd love to hear your thoughts on this! >>> >>> > >>> >>> > — Doug >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:49 AM Richard Brooks <[email protected] >>> >>> > <mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Interesting. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/2/21278601/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-tr >>> >>> > ump-posts-employee-call-fact-checking-voter-misinformation >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://faculty.lsu.edu/fakenews/elections/thethreatofqanon.php >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://www.france24.com/en/20201006-qanon-conspiracies-go-global-in-p >>> >>> > andemic-perfect-storm >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1369118X.2017.1329334?jour >>> >>> > nalCode=rics20 >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/youtube-radi >>> >>> > cal.html >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On 12/23/20 4:31 AM, grarpamp wrote: >>> >>> > > The Invisible Influence of Big Tech on Politics & Elections - >>> Allum >>> >>> > > Bokhari #Deleted >>> >>> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFJfGphZBmQ >>> >>> > > #Deleted: Big Tech's battle to erase the trump movement and steal >>> >>> > the election >>> >>> > > https://deletedbook.com/ >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major >>> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you >>> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, >>> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> -- >>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major >>> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you >>> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, >>> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Douglas Schuler >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> Twitter: @doug_schuler >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> Public Sphere Project >>> >>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good >>> >>> * http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci >>> <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>4cg-announce* >>> >>> >>> >>> Creating the World Citizen Parliament >>> >>> >>> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament >>> >>> >>> >>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >>> (project) >>> >>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv >>> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> >>> >>> >>> >>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >>> (book) >>> >>> https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/liberating-voices >>> >> >> >> -- >> Douglas Schuler >> [email protected] >> Twitter: @doug_schuler >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Public Sphere Project >> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ >> >> Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good >> * http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci >> <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>4cg-announce* >> >> Creating the World Citizen Parliament >> >> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament >> >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >> (project) >> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv >> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> >> >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >> (book) >> https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/liberating-voices >> -- >> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major >> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you >> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe, >> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing >> [email protected]. > > -- Douglas Schuler [email protected] Twitter: @doug_schuler ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good * http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>4cg-announce* Creating the World Citizen Parliament http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/liberating-voices
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