Would someone please unsubscribe me. I can't seem to do it myself. —Mohamed
On 22 June 2011 10:23, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send luatex mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/luatex > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of luatex digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: dump a tfm to a file (Ulrike Fischer) > 2. Re: dump a tfm to a file (Ulrike Fischer) > 3. Re: dump a tfm to a file (Taco Hoekwater) > 4. Re: dump a tfm to a file (Luis Rivera) > 5. Re: dump a tfm to a file (Khaled Hosny) > 6. Re: dump a tfm to a file (Ulrike Fischer) > 7. Re: dump a tfm to a file (luigi scarso) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:30:19 +0200 > From: Ulrike Fischer <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Am Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:33:26 +0200 schrieb Mojca Miklavec: > > >> I know nothing about tex4ht except that it exists and is annoyingly hard > >> to set up right (which is exactly why that is the only thing I know > >> about it). > > And this from the user of a system which so hard to set up that it > breaks permanently in miktex ;-) > > Actually I don't think that tex4ht is overly complicated, but yes > tex4ht it is not really easy to debug or to get details right or to > expand. > > One central problem is that not much of its "inner working" is > known. Eitan Gurari was always very helpful on c.t.t. If someone > mentioned a bug or a feature request a new beta arrived. But as far > as I know he was the only one who worked with the source and > actually understood what the various pieces do. And while there is > some code documentation it is not helpful as it contains a lot of > personal remarks, e-mail snippets and obviously simply evolved over > time. And this makes it difficult to find a new maintainer, or > someone who can help with problems and insights. > > But on the other side texh4t contains a lot of useful code. I was > quite impressed some days ago when I could convert a document > containing a biblatex bibliography without much problems to an open > office document. And the html generation is really quite powerful > and sophisticated. It would be a pity if one would do all the work > again instead of trying first if it can be reused and adapted. > > > >> But if there is a dedicated format that tex4ht understands, > >> then it should be quite straightforward to create such a file based on > >> the internal metrics representation, especially if it is a > human-readable > >> format. > > > > It is. See: > > > /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/unicode/lm/lm-ec.htf > > tex4ht doesn't use only this htf-files. At first it loads the tfm's > of the fonts mentioned in the dvi (I don't know exactly why). > > > -- > Ulrike Fischer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:37:50 +0200 > From: Ulrike Fischer <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Am Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:57:35 +0200 schrieb Khaled Hosny: > > > > Or one can just ditch tex4ht entirely and go with more sane lua based > > solution like the amazing x(h)ml export work that Hans is doing (it can > > even export xii.tex ;) ). > > tex4ht can export xii.tex too. I tried ;-) And while I would > certainly like to try Hans code: it probably doesn't work for latex, > so it would need someone who 1. understand it and 2. can adapt it. > Both not very easy without some good documentation. > > Btw: Do you have time to synch the unstable branch of luaotfload > with the newest context code? > > -- > Ulrike Fischer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:42:51 +0200 > From: Taco Hoekwater <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "General discussion of > LuaTeX." <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > > On 21 jun. 2011, at 18:30, Ulrike Fischer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Am Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:33:26 +0200 schrieb Mojca Miklavec: > > > >>> I know nothing about tex4ht except that it exists and is annoyingly > hard > >>> to set up right (which is exactly why that is the only thing I know > >>> about it). > > > > And this from the user of a system which so hard to set up that it > > breaks permanently in miktex ;-) > > > > Actually, that quote was me talking. I don't think Mojca would claim that > anything at all is hard to set up ;) > > >> It is. See: > >> > /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/unicode/lm/lm-ec.htf > > > > tex4ht doesn't use only this htf-files. At first it loads the tfm's > > of the fonts mentioned in the dvi (I don't know exactly why). > > If it really needs TFMs, I do not think it can ever be compatible with > luatex (or xetex, for that matter). > > Best wishes, > Taco > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:09:04 -0500 > From: Luis Rivera <[email protected]> > To: "General discussion of LuaTeX." <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 21/06/2011, Taco Hoekwater <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 21 jun. 2011, at 18:30, Ulrike Fischer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> tex4ht doesn't use only this htf-files. At first it loads the tfm's > >> of the fonts mentioned in the dvi (I don't know exactly why). > > > > If it really needs TFMs, I do not think it can ever be compatible with > > luatex (or xetex, for that matter). > > > > afaik, tex4ht doesn't load the tfms to generate the dvi: that's > required by some tex engine (pdfTeX, afaik) which generates a dvi with > some tailored suited macros (it makes three passes, to ensure the bbl, > idx and other stuff are properly compiled); then, in the second stage, > tex4ht deciphers the dvi with the htf files to generate some xml > files; and in the third stage, t4ht assembles the final html/odt file > with the xmls, the images, and all the other stuff generated by the > previous steps. I collect that from reading the oolatex script, which > actually controls the whole process. > > So, in my not very enlightened opinion, htf files are necessary only > because the tfm files that generate a dvi may have different > encodings, so the resulting dvi files are spaghetti encoded, and there > is some need to ensure that appropriate utf8 sequences are produced > from the messy dvi into the the generated xml files. htf files are > mainly maps from 8 bit encoded fonts into utf8. > > If a TeX engine could read and write files properly UTF8 encoded, the > need for htf files would be bypassed; tex4ht would only have to > translate typesetting instructions (from a target successor of dvi > format) into xml tags, since the encoding would be UTF8 right from the > beginning. > > -- > Luis Rivera > O< http://www.asciiribbon.org/ campaign > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:05:36 +0200 > From: Khaled Hosny <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], "General discussion of LuaTeX." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <20110621210536.GA15999@khaled-laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 06:37:50PM +0200, Ulrike Fischer wrote: > > Am Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:57:35 +0200 schrieb Khaled Hosny: > > > > > > > Or one can just ditch tex4ht entirely and go with more sane lua based > > > solution like the amazing x(h)ml export work that Hans is doing (it can > > > even export xii.tex ;) ). > > > > tex4ht can export xii.tex too. I tried ;-) And while I would > > certainly like to try Hans code: it probably doesn't work for latex, > > so it would need someone who 1. understand it and 2. can adapt it. > > Both not very easy without some good documentation. > > Hans code is probably deeply tied with ConTeXt, I was only suggesting > that someone would try a similar approach (I don't know much about > tex4ht either, but from where I stand it looks like a big, complex and > fragile hack that is only necessary because TeX can't do better.) > > > Btw: Do you have time to synch the unstable branch of luaotfload > > with the newest context code? > > I don't think so, Hans did some big changes (to make the code even more > separable) and it might require rewriting luaotfload's glue layer, but I > can't afford time for that (I can only do small and interesting hacks :) > for the time being.) > > Regards, > Khaled > > -- > Khaled Hosny > Egyptian > Arab > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:56:58 +0200 > From: Ulrike Fischer <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" > > Am Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:09:04 -0500 schrieb Luis Rivera: > > >>> tex4ht doesn't use only this htf-files. At first it loads the tfm's > >>> of the fonts mentioned in the dvi (I don't know exactly why). > >> > >> If it really needs TFMs, I do not think it can ever be compatible with > >> luatex (or xetex, for that matter). > >> > > > > afaik, tex4ht doesn't load the tfms to generate the dvi: that's > > required by some tex engine (pdfTeX, afaik) which generates a dvi with > > some tailored suited macros (it makes three passes, to ensure the bbl, > > idx and other stuff are properly compiled); then, in the second stage, > > tex4ht deciphers the dvi with the htf files to generate some xml > > files; and in the third stage, t4ht assembles the final html/odt file > > with the xmls, the images, and all the other stuff generated by the > > previous steps. I collect that from reading the oolatex script, which > > actually controls the whole process. > > > > > > To avoid some confusion: There is tex4ht as "system", large package > with various files, folders, configuration etc. And there is the > central application tex4ht.exe. > > tex4ht.exe is a dvi-driver. It takes a dvi and generates eg a > html-file. To be able to do this the dvi must contain a lot > \specials. This specials are inserted by tex4ht.sty and various > 4ht-files during the previous (lua)latex runs. > > > > So, in my not very enlightened opinion, htf files are necessary only > > because the tfm files that generate a dvi may have different > > encodings, so the resulting dvi files are spaghetti encoded, and there > > is some need to ensure that appropriate utf8 sequences are produced > > from the messy dvi into the the generated xml files. htf files are > > mainly maps from 8 bit encoded fonts into utf8. > > > > If a TeX engine could read and write files properly UTF8 encoded, the > > need for htf files would be bypassed; tex4ht would only have to > > translate typesetting instructions (from a target successor of dvi > > format) into xml tags, since the encoding would be UTF8 right from the > > beginning. > > The htf-files don't do only reencoding or mapping. They are used to > control the "look" of the output. E.g. > > 'b' '' 98 > > will give the expected "b" if the input is char98 (= b). But in > another htf-file you find at position 98 this: > > 'B' '4' 98 > > and this will give > > <span class="small-caps">B</span> > > (The <span> comes from the '4' which is a class number). > > So the htf-files gives you a low-level mapping characters to other > representations (like html entities) and of fonts to font features > in html like small-caps, bold etc. > > > The generation of the dvi works fine with luatex. The problems > starts at the dvi -> html step with tex4ht (if the document uses > system fonts). The dvi contains font names like "file:lm-modern..." > and tex4ht looks (for still unknown reasons) for its tfm and can't > find it. > > For a simple document I got around the problem by using the > low-level command \font\test=Arial and renaming an arbitrary tfm to > arial.tfm. Currently I seem to be able to use ASCII and ???, but > the ? is output to ?. This looks like a 256-barrier ;-(. But > perhaps one can get around it by extending the htf-files. > > > > -- > Ulrike Fischer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:23:14 +0200 > From: luigi scarso <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [luatex] dump a tfm to a file > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Ulrike Fischer <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Am Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:09:04 -0500 schrieb Luis Rivera: > > > >>>> tex4ht doesn't use only this htf-files. At first it loads the tfm's > >>>> of the fonts mentioned in the dvi (I don't know exactly why). > >>> > >>> If it really needs TFMs, I do not think it can ever be compatible with > >>> luatex (or xetex, for that matter). > >>> > >> > >> afaik, tex4ht doesn't load the tfms to generate the dvi: that's > >> required by some tex engine (pdfTeX, afaik) which generates a dvi with > >> some tailored suited macros (it makes three passes, to ensure the bbl, > >> idx and other stuff are properly compiled); then, in the second stage, > >> tex4ht deciphers the dvi with the htf files to generate some xml > >> files; and in the third stage, t4ht assembles the final html/odt file > >> with the xmls, the images, and all the other stuff generated by the > >> previous steps. I collect that from reading the oolatex script, which > >> actually controls the whole process. > >> > > > > > > > > To avoid some confusion: There is tex4ht as "system", large package > > with various files, folders, configuration etc. And there is the > > central application tex4ht.exe. > > > > tex4ht.exe is a dvi-driver. It takes a dvi and generates eg a > > html-file. To be able to do this the dvi must contain a lot > > \specials. This specials are inserted by tex4ht.sty and various > > 4ht-files during the previous (lua)latex runs. > > > > > >> So, in my not very enlightened opinion, htf files are necessary only > >> because the tfm files that generate a dvi may have different > >> encodings, so the resulting dvi files are spaghetti encoded, and there > >> is some need to ensure that appropriate utf8 sequences are produced > >> from the messy dvi into the the generated xml files. htf files are > >> mainly maps from 8 bit encoded fonts into utf8. > >> > >> If a TeX engine could read and write files properly UTF8 encoded, the > >> need for htf files would be bypassed; tex4ht would only have to > >> translate typesetting instructions (from a target successor of dvi > >> format) into xml tags, since the encoding would be UTF8 right from the > >> beginning. > > > > The htf-files don't do only reencoding or mapping. They are used to > > control the "look" of the output. E.g. > > > > 'b' '' ? ? 98 > > > > will give the expected "b" if the input is char98 (= b). But in > > another htf-file you find at position 98 this: > > > > 'B' '4' ? ?98 > > > > and this will give > > > > <span class="small-caps">B</span> > > > > (The <span> ?comes from the '4' which is a class number). > > > > So the htf-files gives you a low-level mapping characters to other > > representations (like html entities) and of fonts to font features > > in html like small-caps, bold etc. > > > > > > The generation of the dvi works fine with luatex. The problems > > starts at the dvi -> html step with tex4ht (if the document uses > > system fonts). The dvi contains font names like "file:lm-modern..." > > and tex4ht looks (for still unknown reasons) for its tfm and can't > > find it. > > > > For a simple document I got around the problem by using the > > low-level command \font\test=Arial and renaming an arbitrary tfm to > > arial.tfm. ?Currently I seem to be able to use ASCII and ???, but > > the ? is output to ??. This looks like a 256-barrier ;-(. But > > perhaps one can get around it by extending the htf-files. > With context mkii (texlive 2009, pdftex engine: test.mkii is an utf-8 file) > > %%% test.mkii > \enableregime[utf] > \starttext > goo > ???@?? > \stoptext > %%% > > $>texexec --dvi test.mkii > $>tex4ht test.dvi > > > ---------------------------- > tex4ht.c (2009-01-31-07:33 kpathsea) > /opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/bin/i386-linux/tex4ht test.dvi > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/tex4ht/base/unix/tex4ht.env) > > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/iso8859/1/charset/unicode.4hf) > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/fonts/tfm/hoekwater/context/fmvr8x.tfm) > > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/unicode/marvosym/fmvr8x.htf) > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/fonts/tfm/public/lm/ec-lmr12.tfm) > > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/alias/lm/lm-ec/ec-lm.htf) > Searching `lm-ec.htf' for `ec-lmr12.htf' > (/opt/TeXLive2009/tl2009/texmf-dist/tex4ht/ht-fonts/unicode/lm/lm-ec.htf) > [1 file test.html > ] > Execute script `test.lg' > > > test.lg is > ---------------------- > htfcss: ec-lmbo font-style: oblique; > htfcss: ec-lmbx font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmbxi font-style:italic; font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmbxo font-style: oblique; font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmcsco font-style: oblique; > htfcss: ec-lmri font-style:italic; > htfcss: ec-lmro font-style: oblique; > htfcss: ec-lmss font-family: sans-serif; > htfcss: ec-lmssbo font-family: sans-serif; font-style: oblique; > font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmssbx font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmssdc font-family: sans-serif; > htfcss: ec-lmssdo font-family: sans-serif; font-style: oblique; > htfcss: ec-lmsso font-family: sans-serif; font-style: oblique; > htfcss: ec-lmssq font-family: sans-serif; > htfcss: ec-lmssqbo font-family: sans-serif; font-style: oblique; > font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmssqbx font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: bold; > htfcss: ec-lmssqo font-family: sans-serif; font-style: oblique; > htfcss: ec-lmtcsc font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtcso font-style: oblique; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtk font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtko font-style: oblique; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtl font-weight: light; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtlc font-weight: light; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtlco font-weight: light; font-style: oblique; > font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtlo font-weight: light; font-style: oblique; > font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtt font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmtti font-family: monospace; font-style:italic; > htfcss: ec-lmtto font-style: oblique; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmvtk font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmvtko font-style: oblique; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmvtl font-weight: light; font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmvtlo font-weight: light; font-style: oblique; > font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmvtt font-family: monospace; > htfcss: ec-lmvtto font-style: oblique; font-family: monospace; > File: test.html > --- characters --- > Font("ec-lmr","12","12","100") > Font("fmvr8x","","10","120") > ------------------ > > > The result is > > 1 > goo €??@cc > > > (where 1 is the pagenumber on the header) > > > > > -- > luigi > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > luatex mailing list > [email protected] > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/luatex > > > End of luatex Digest, Vol 30, Issue 13 > ************************************** >
