Tim, I agree that from talking nothing much will happen. I wanted to see where the community stands right now. The core of the idea presented below is the wireless mesh network. Since there are already open-source projects I think its not very complicated to implement them on a basic level in a local Distro to start off. Then we can continue add useful functionality based on the mesh network. BTW, its not a completely new idea: http://www.startupafrica.com/2009/03/afrimesh-wireless-mesh-networking/ http://code.google.com/p/afrimesh/
In order to begin a combined community effort to develop and customise a local Distro we would need a central platform for developers. Otherwise, everyone will continue doing his own home-brew distro (re-spin). And, before we set-up this platform I guess a few questions need answers and decisions will need to be made, democratically :-) Question is, does the interest exists in such a project? Regards, Rocco On 21/09/2011 5:38 PM, Tim Schofield wrote: > Hi Rocco, > > I agree with all of your aims, but if you say you will wait for all of > those to be accomplished before anything is released then it will > never be released. My experience over many years in many projects is > that those who decide on meeting all their aims before anything is > released start off with great enthusiasm but quickly die away. Those > that release something very basic and build on it are the ones that > succeed. > > Look at the Linux kernel, they had many releases before networking was > implemented. There can't be much more of a core app for a unix like > operating system than networking, but by releasing early and often > enthusiasm was kept up. What I am saying is get something that works > out there and then start building on it. > > Thanks > Tim > > On 21 September 2011 13:19, Rocco Radisch <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Tim, >> and there is where I beg to differ. Call me a pessimist, but just >> scratching some surfaces here and there won't accelerate mass >> distribution. I am not saying the effort been put in is worthless, but >> its not at the same level. The reason why Facebook has reached its >> popularity is because Mark Zuckerberg plugged the needs of the common >> users demands. We need to define our fellow users demands in UG, which >> in my opinion is ==access== to communication and media(/content). A >> local type of Facebook just goes in line with it, but without the >> strategy of access any of those projects are slowed down or die >> eventually (due to the issue of internet penetration). >> The local Distro is a vital key element for this idea. In order to >> achieve access to services any time and any where means we need to have >> the server and client role on each computer. Please note, its not >> necessary to completely re-invent the wheel. E.g.: look at Opera's >> inbuilt web server with apps the user can activate. >> On the layer1 issue (the mesh), there are existing open-source projects, >> to name a few: >> http://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki >> http://nightwing.lugro-mesh.org.ar/en/ >> We'll need a common framework allowing app developers to make use of the >> mesh based networking model. So if two computer find themselves with >> shared apps, one is the host, the other is the guest. The framework >> needs to define mobility, so that the computer with the strongest signal >> can take over the server role and the other computer's apps switch into >> the guest role in case of multi-user apps. If its just sharing content, >> that means only 1 computer is the host. If its about chat groups and >> phone/video conferencing, one computer has to assume the server role for >> the respective app to manage connectivity, or make use of multi-casting >> to only transmit upstream traffic (not sure if that works in a mesh). If >> its about updates for our UG distro we rather need a p2p based >> distribution model then a central server. The same counts for >> information and content libraries we want to mass distribute, like for >> schools (self replicating WIKIs). Like a virus distributing itself from >> machine to machine :-) Imagine, 1-2 people from the Mbara Chapter come >> once in a month for the LUG meeting and while they sit in the room they >> automatically receive the latest updates and apps. Once they are back in >> Mbara, that "virus" of apps and information automatically re-distributes >> to the FOSS users in Mbara. OS's can be installed via network. No need >> for someone physically using a CD to install (besides the pre-installed >> option). That should be another core app of the distro. It has to be >> fast and easy to install, and needs awesome features and capabilities to >> keep the users. In our days, its possible to replace an entire OS with a >> web browser (http://www.eyeos.org/). So much about hardware >> requirements. Of course, we'll also need to look into security and >> authentication of those updates and packages via signing etc, but that >> is too much detail for now. >> >> Opinion? >> Rocco >> >> On 21/09/2011 2:12 PM, Tim Schofield wrote: >>> Hi Rocco, >>> >>> I agree with most of what you say, but what we need to do is to start. >>> A simple respin distro which has the branding changed to a >>> Ugandan/East African theme pushed into schools and universities would >>> put the tools to do most of what you say, onto peoples computers. >>> >>> Creating translations into local languages is not technically >>> challenging, it just requires effort. It would be a fairly trivial >>> task to put into this distro the ability to contribute to a >>> translation for an application, and send it back to a central point. >>> >>> Its a mystery to me why some smart person hasn't taken a leaf out of >>> Mark Zuckerberg's book and started a Facebook type application just >>> for Makarere, in the same way he started Facebook at Harvard. The >>> tools to do this (https://joindiaspora.com/ for instance) are easily >>> available. >>> >>> Once the ideas behind Free software catch on the possibilities are >>> endless. However if we set our sites too high at the start it wont >>> ever get off the ground. Like with all good Free software projects it >>> is important to get something out there quick that can be built on by >>> a community. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> On 21 September 2011 11:45, Rocco Radisch <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> What we need is a distro which overcomes local challenges and is made to >>>> appeal the local user. Mindsets are different, culture is different, >>>> requirements and resources are different. That is a huge project if we >>>> would take a few minutes and go into it a bit deeper. It also requires >>>> to split the problem into hardware and software in my opinion. As it was >>>> mentioned earlier here, new computers come in a package with >>>> pre-installed software (usually). Especially, with bigger projects like >>>> a few hundreds or thousands computers, MS makes sure to reduce prices >>>> via Volume licenses, substitutions and funding. "They" know how to keep >>>> them alive and what works for them should also work for FOSS (IMO). My >>>> point is, the software has to be packaged with the hardware. >>>> >>>> If we look at hardware there are following issues to tackle: >>>> a) cost - not everyone can afford computers. So, how we can we build and >>>> assemble low cost units in Uganda. >>>> b) power - how can those be powered in areas with little or no access to >>>> power ( reduce energy consumption, solar? ). >>>> c) Portability - given the low coverage of computers, they should be >>>> portable/shareable -> laptops, smart phones ? >>>> >>>> Software: >>>> >>>> a) Language - steps have been taken, e.g. Firefox and Google in a few >>>> local languages. What about a Ubuntu distro which can be switched into >>>> different local languages. >>>> b) User friendliness - a different mindsets means every user has a >>>> different way how he wants to -USE- the computer and -EXPECTS- how the >>>> computer (GUI) behaves and responds to his input. That is a problem in >>>> UG because of ICT illiteracy, but also a blessing at the same time >>>> because the user is not fixed to just one way (the MS Start button :-) ) >>>> c) Connectivity. One of the major problems. Imagine, in urban areas or >>>> in areas like Universities we might achieve a high coverage of computers >>>> with standard wireless adapters but only very few will be able to afford >>>> internet connectivity. >>>> >>>> Problem no 1) Mentioned a dozens of times here, there is little local >>>> content. Facebook, Youtube and the like, what the user really wants to >>>> use requires costly bandwidth to serve content/services from abroad. We >>>> can't blame the user for that. We can't tell the user to only use the >>>> computer for particular purposes. You buy a laptop for your kid as a >>>> research tool for school/university, well, 50% Games, 30% Facebook, 10% >>>> Youtube and 10% homework. The user steers the demand. Question is, would >>>> users start to use other but similar services if access is free and have >>>> a local touch? Or, would it just kill the coolness? >>>> 2) Peer to peer / Mesh systems. Imagine, every re-mastered or customised >>>> distro has a custom developed application stack. Think of games, social >>>> media, video sharing, picture sharing, chat/IM, VoIP (calls), name it. >>>> Now, imagine we have a high density of computers with wireless adapters >>>> which can build upon detection a self healing and self connecting >>>> network. The more computers with this ability, the more bandwidth and >>>> stability (to a certain limit). The user can simply activate >>>> applications or content he wants to use or share and invite "nearby" >>>> friends. The result would be an incredible pool of possibilities, not >>>> needing access to costly bandwidth and dependency of any service >>>> provider to give access to these services. >>>> >>>> Creativity and possibilities are only limited by our minds. To build a >>>> custom network driver into a UG re-mastered Distro is possible. I am not >>>> saying its easy but it could reach its own status and coolness, and >>>> usually with that its possible to reach masses. And what the users wants >>>> is connectivity and communication services (for free). My point is, just >>>> to re-master an Ubuntu distro with some favourite apps of one user, it >>>> won't gain this coolness, it won't reach the masses in my opinion. >>>> >>>> What do you think? What is your opinion as community? Where are we at? >>>> How strong can the community be to put things together? Do we have the >>>> resources yet? >>>> Rocco >>>> >>>> >>>> On 21/09/2011 12:16 PM, Tim Schofield wrote: >>>>> Politically (rather than technically or financially) the thing to do >>>>> is to produce a respin that has Ugandan/East African branding on it. >>>>> >>>>> Politicians don't care about the technical benefits of Free software >>>>> and if its cheap then that just means their cut from any deal is >>>>> reduced (oops I didn't really say that did I?), but if they can say >>>>> they have done the patriotic thing by buying local then that is >>>>> something they will be keen to get in the media. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe a centralised non-profit organisation can produce it so that >>>>> then private companies can sell hardware with it on to the schools. >>>>> Maybe? >>>>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 20 September 2011 17:08, Reinier Battenberg >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> I dont want to bid. I just want the kids to be free & use FLOSS. >>>>>> >>>>>> What if we did a petition? >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well in that case it would be ok. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The question would therefore be to partner with a suitable hardware >>>>>>> supplier >>>>>> and produce a suitable build for users up country. Maybe even an >>>>>> experiment >>>>>> where we install half with Windows have with Ubuntu and see which ares >>>>>> better. >>>>>> It does require some thought for example what additional hardware is >>>>>> required >>>>>> to work with the computers. Our box shifter friends tend to give up very >>>>>> easily if they can not just install the Printer drivers. >>>>>>> So the question might be to contact UCC. However they most likely will >>>>>>> tell >>>>>> you to tender along with everyone else. >>>>>>> Simon Vass >>>>>>> Managing Director >>>>>>> E-Tech Uganda Ltd >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.etech.ug >>>>>>> Tel: +256 (0) 312260620 or (0) 312260621 >>>>>>> email: [email protected] >>>>>>> skype: e-techservicedesk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Reinier Battenberg" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: "Uganda Linux User Group" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011 5:02:41 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [LUG] Computers in Schools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> its funded by the Rural xx xx Fund (the extra tax on your airtime that >>>>>>> is to >>>>>>> make sure there is connectivity in non-urban areas too) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so, its a pure UCC thing, it seems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The biggest problem we face is the current curriculum is Windows only. >>>>>>>> We would need to change that in order for the students to be able to >>>>>>>> learn using FLOSS. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is this a UCC not a MoE deal? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 20 September 2011 15:40, Reinier Battenberg >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Today there is a Bid Notice in the Monitor to supply 130 schools in >>>>>> Uganda >>>>>>>>> with computers. There is not much more information in the >>>>>>>>> advertisement. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the interest of the students, I think it would be very benifitial >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> computers would run FLOSS. There are a few arguments for that, which I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> UCC should take into consideration when assigning the final bid. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This being the LUG, i presume there are quite a number of people on >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>> that agree with me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What can we, as a community do, to get our point across to UCC and >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> 130 schools to run software that they can maintain, learn, translate >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> extend? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> rgds, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Reinier Battenberg >>>>>>>>> Director >>>>>>>>> Mountbatten Ltd. >>>>>>>>> +256 758 801 749 >>>>>>>>> www.mountbatten.net >>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/batje >>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mapuganda >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>>>> (including >>>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>>> in >>>>>> any >>>>>>> way. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Simon Vass >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>>> in >>>>>> any >>>>>>> way. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> rgds, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reinier Battenberg >>>>>>> Director >>>>>>> Mountbatten Ltd. >>>>>>> +256 758 801 749 >>>>>>> www.mountbatten.net >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/batje >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/mapuganda >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>> in any >>>>>> way. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>>>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >>>>>>> believed to be clean. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>> in any >>>>>> way. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> rgds, >>>>>> >>>>>> Reinier Battenberg >>>>>> Director >>>>>> Mountbatten Ltd. >>>>>> +256 758 801 749 >>>>>> www.mountbatten.net >>>>>> http://twitter.com/batje >>>>>> http://twitter.com/mapuganda >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> >>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> >>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>> in any way. >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>> >>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>> [email protected] >>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>> >>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>> >>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>>> any way. >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >> >> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] >> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >> >> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >> >> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >> any way. >> > > _______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
