Dear Monica, I shall certainly have to read this new book; I believe I may be able to get it via amazon. I know what you mean about the lack of critical use of sources, as you well know, this has been for a long time a hallmark in vihuela studies.
A little more on Bermudo. If you rememnre the chapter on nomenclature form my dissertation (and thanks for your appreciation), when - in the contxto of tuning and stringing - Bermudo uses "vihuela" and "guitar" as synonims for their tunings, but regarding actual pitch, the only certain thing we know is that vihuelas were made in several sizes and tuned according to the characteristics of the strings and instrument size. Besides the posible nominal tunings of G and A one of the few pieces of evidence about "pitch", Venegas de Henestrosa's diagram comparing keyboard, harp and vihuela indicates a tuning in E, and if we are to credit Milan's rubrics, you will find quite a lot more of nominal tunings, I can't recall offhand which or how many, but if you are interested, I wrote an article abouth this in GSJ, XLIV, 1991, called "You will raise a little your 4th fret: an Equivocal Instruction by Milan?" To these we can add Bermudo's diagrams ilustrating "seven vihuelas" (i.e. seven nominal tunings). With best regards, Antonio --- Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribi�: > > > > I assume the book in question is Tyler and Sparks > > discussion of the mandoline; unfortunately I have > not > > had the opportunity to read it. However, if > previous > > works by Tyler could serve as a reference, I would > > indeed be careful about what is stated there. > > No - its the new book - "The guitar and its music > from the renaissnce to the > classical era. " > > Unfortunately many of the sources which are > described and used as a basis > for determining thesize and tuning of the 4-course > guitar are probably for > the 4-course mandora/mandola often referred to as > "chitarra" in Italian > sources. They are not therefore relevant. > > It seems to me that there just isn't sufficient > evidence to reach > conclusions about the size or tuning of the > instrument. One can't even be > sure which instrument is being referred to by terms > such as "chitarra", > "guitarra". > > I would agree that when Bermudo says that a guitar > is like a vihuela without > the 1st and 6th courses he is referring to the > intervals between the courses > and not their pitch. > > Nevertheless, the standard 6-course vihuela, like > the lute, seems to have > been tuned in G or A, whatever that meant in terms > of actual pitch at the > time - > > g c f a d g or > > a d g b e a > > If you remove the 1st and 6th courses possible > tunings for the guitar > results which would probably be compatible with it's > being slightly, but not > a lot smaller then a vihuela (however big that may > have been...) If you then > add a 5th course you end up with the two standard > nominal pitches for the > 5-course guitar found throughout the 17th century. > > Just a (speculative) thought! > > I've read your article and - recently - your > splendid dissertation. > > Monica > > > > Regarding the vihuela-guitar question, I have > gathered > > from the discusion here that little is known about > > this rather polemic issue, and indeed there is > much > > that could and should be said but, instead of > > burdening the readers on the list, I would refer > those > > interested to the article I have already mentioned > on > > previous communications: > > > > "The Vihuela and the Guitar in Sixteenth-Century > > Spain: a critical appraisal of some of the > existing > > evidence", The Lute, vol. XXX, 1990, pp 3-24. > > > > With my best regards, > > Yours, > > Antonio > > > > > > --- Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > escribi�: > > > I would treat anything said on this subject in > this > > > book with considerable > > > caution! Quite a lot of what is said about the > > > 4-course guitar isn't > > > accurate and several of the Italian sources, > such as > > > Cerreto, Barberiis etc. > > > probably refer to the mandola/mandora. > > > > > > Antonio will probably have a lot more to say > about > > > that. > > > > > > Monica > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene C. Braig IV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:16 PM > > > Subject: Re: vihuela as guitar > > > > > > > > > > Tyler & Sparks (2002) conclusively state that > "the > > > guitar and vihuela were > > > > considered as two distinct instruments in > 16th-c. > > > Spain." The evolution > > > of > > > > vihuela in Spain and Viola in Italy is usually > > > placed as a subset of > > > proper > > > > lutes. The topic is still touchy and I > believe > > > the distinction blurred a > > > > bit as the proper vihuela fell from popularity > at > > > the end of the 16th c. > > > > and the guitar gained popularity. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 03:50 AM 9/16/2004, bill kilpatrick wrote: > > > > >a little late in the discussion but: > > > > > > > > > >- wouldn't a definition of vihuela and guitar > be > > > > >useful? > > > > > > > > > >- is definition possible? > > > > > > > > > >- weren't the terms synonymus as used in the > 16th > > > > >cent.? > > > > > > > > > >what i understand so far is: > > > > > > > > > >- 5c. means vihuela and 6c. guitar. > > > > > > > > > >- the placement of sound hole, bout > configuration > > > and > > > > >proportion doesn't seem to matter much in > making > > > the > > > > >distinction. > > > > > > > > > >please correct me if i wrong. > > > > > > > > > >cheers - bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list > information at > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information > at > > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Informaci�n de Estados Unidos y Am�rica Latina, en > Yahoo! Noticias. > > Vis�tanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Informaci�n de Estados Unidos y Am�rica Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias. Vis�tanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
