Roman, you are a piece of work, you cannot disagree with someone without getting nasty or snide.
Vance Wood. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:36 PM Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left handthumb to stopbass notes > It is also possible (by the same token) that Ruysdal painted his trees off > the bonsai shrubbery on his windowsill. > However in case of real portraiture it was common to use body doubles for > important people who had no time to pose. Therefore an artist (as opposed to > a hack) probably painted a lutenist from a real lutenist, as lutenists were > not exactly occupied with running countries and waging wars. > Moreover, the draftsmanship of the time was such that a professional artist > could produce a perfectly realistic imaginary lutenist, simply synthesizing > one from memory, even without aid of a sketchbook. > RT > ______________ > Roman M. Turovsky > http://polyhymnion.org/swv > > > > > > Many professional artists of the day carried around a number of pre-painted > > items that all they had to do was insert face. So, yes it is possible the > > person actually holding the Lute was Schlubb, a fourteen year old peasant > > boy. > > > > Vance Wood. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:09 PM > > Subject: RE: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left hand thumb > > to stopbass notes > > > > > >>> Yet another possibility is that the owner of the face might not be > >> the owner of the hands. It would not be uncommon for a studio > >> assistant to pose for most of the modeling of the figure (including > >> the pose holding the lute), while the portrait head would be worked > >> out from sketches made of the real sitter. In many cases the subject > >> of a portrait would have been too busy and important to spend hours > >> sitting in a fixed position modeling for an artist. So a live model > >> would stand in. After the figure had been finished and the face > >> mostly painted, the painting would be given its final touches in a > >> relatively few sessions with the actual subject of the portrait. > >> > >> If this portrait is indeed Francesco da Milano, it doesn't > >> necessarily follow that the pose holding the lute is that of a > >> trained lutenist. It could have been the artist's 14-year-old > >> brother who was the right height and was acting as a cheap model. > >> > >> We know, for instance, that in many cases the female figures in > >> Renaissance paintings (whether portraits, religious figures or female > >> allegories) were actually painted using the young male assistants of > >> the artist as models. You can't take these paintings at face value > >> (no pun intended). > >> > >> Tim > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---- Original Message ---- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left > >>> hand thumb to stopbass notes > >>> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:16:43 +0100 > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> this site is a great source for lute pictures! > >>>> I don't want to insist but ... for acuracy see > >>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1-Pages/Image115.html (introdiced > >>> on the > >>>> site as possible portrait of Francesco da Milano) and imagine what a > >>> thumb > >>>> this guy must have had. Anyway the chord he fingered looks plausible > >>> and > >>>> the right hand position (including the position of the fingers), > >>> too. What > >>>> chord would you choose when posing for a paintig? Surely a rather > >>> common > >>>> one (as in 115, where a F-Major is depicted assuming G-Tuning) - > >>> B-E-c > >>>> would be a rather odd chord for that. > >>>> > >>>> As already mentioned by others: > >>>> It's well possible that the guy of the picture in question just > >>> "posed" and > >>>> the position of his left hand fingers are just like "grabbing" the > >>> lute. If > >>>> you take a look at /image30.html you see the thumb raising over the > >>> neck > >>>> but is not fingering. I wonder how the chord would sound fingering > >>> like > >>>> that > >>>> > >>>> And regarding the original picture I wonder at which time it was > >>> painted. > >>>> The lute model looks interesting ... > >>>> > >>>> Best wishes > >>>> Thomas > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 17.02.2005 16:12:23 > >>>> > >>>> An: LUTE-LIST <[email protected]> > >>>> Kopie: > >>>> > >>>> Thema: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Antwort: left hand thumb to > >>> stop > >>>> bass notes > >>>> > >>>>> so play the chord this guy here is fingering. (Bb on the 6th > >>> course, E > >>>> on > >>>>> the the 5th, C on the 3rd assuming a ren- lute in G) Which fingers > >>> on > >>>> your > >>>>> right hand would you use? > >>>>> * The right hand doesn't seem to pluck the strings this guy is > >>> fingering > >>>>> (he seems to pluck the 2nd and 4th string ) ... > >>>> That doesn't mean much. His right hand might have plucked and the > >>> left > >>>> lagged. > >>>> Alfonso Marin's iconography page has a staggering number of > >>> left-thumbers > >>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1.html, some protruding, some > >>> fretting. > >>>> RT > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are > >>> confidential and > >>>> may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please notify > >>> the > >>>> sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another > >>> person, use > >>>> it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
