>Point being, don't write off trivia or the trivium as trivial.
Or the triviator, trivilizing, nontrivial trivia.
BTW, Stuart you forgot to use a comma after trivia, in your trival
statement!
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
>
> Point being, don't write off trivia or the trivium as trivial.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 4:31 PM
> To: [email protected]; Stuart LeBlanc
> Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
>
>
> Stuart,
> I recall having had a debate, about the origins of the lute not to long
> ago. From sticks and twine to shells and skins.
> The Biwa, or whatever it is, is not the lute as we know it, now is it?
> You may criticize my grammar all you like. Just don't pull out, your
> badge, and credentials, as you did before to win an argument. I was
hoping
> to have some dialogue concerning the tradition of site reading. If
dialogue
> threatens you, feel free to resort to correct my grammar instead.
> Michael Thames
> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
>
>
> >
> > Sorry, not misinformed. Nor trivia, unless you think non-western
cultures
> are
> > inherently trivial.
> >
> > Connect the dots: lute - al'ud - sarod - p'ip'a - biwa
> >
> > In ancient China and Japan, the equivalent of the western liberal arts
was
> the
> > "Four Accomplishments," which included painting, calligraphy, go and...
> lute.
> >
> > BTW the three liberal arts known as the trivium include grammar.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:38 PM
> > To: [email protected]; Stuart LeBlanc
> > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
> >
> >
> > Stuart, I think you might be confusing lute with something else, I
could
> > careless about looking up some miss informed trivia.
> > Concerning my English grammar I do need all the help I can get.
Thanks
> > for your kind advice.
> > Michael Thames
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:47 AM
> > Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Look it up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=moso-biwa
> > >
> > > While you're at it, you might take a look at:
> > > http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/plurals.htm
> > > http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:04 PM
> > > To: [email protected]; Stuart LeBlanc
> > > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
> > >
> > >
> > > >In Japan there is a genre called moso-biwa which consists >of
> > > lute-accompanied
> > > >recitation of Buddhist sutras by blind priests. >(Interestingly,
these
> > > priests
> > > >were also itinerant and eventually formed second careers >as spies
> > >
> > > Buddhist priest's and lutes?
> > > Michael Thames
> > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:24 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In Japan there is a genre called moso-biwa which consists of
> > > lute-accompanied
> > > > recitation of Buddhist sutras by blind priests. (Interestingly,
these
> > > priests
> > > > were also itinerant and eventually formed second careers as spies.)
> > > >
> > > > This brings to mind another point in the debate about performing
from
> > > memory or
> > > > score. Ever notice how most guitarists stare at their hands while
> > > playing,
> > > > while a few look into the rafters or close their eyes (drawing
divine
> > > > inspiration, perhaps)? I wonder which exhibit greater
> professionalism.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Thomas Schall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:07 AM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The playing of the harp required to have long nails which was not
> > possible
> > > > when working on the field. So the playing of the harp was (apart
from
> > > > mystical reasons) often the only possibility for a blindman to earn
> his
> > > > living.
> > > > Could well be that this also apply to lute players (except the nail
> > part).
> > > But
> > > > one needs also to observe that the great lute players of the period
> > could
> > > see
> > > > and I'm sure it helps in the act of composing complex works if you
can
> > > come
> > > > back to something written.
> > > > I'm not sure about it but would think it's easier to reproduce music
> > > without
> > > > the sheet (considering the learning by imitation as flamenco players
> > still
> > > do
> > > > today or the old master model of learning) than composing which back
> > then
> > > > also had a lot to do with the study of old masterpieces.
> > > >
> > > > Thomas
> > > >
> > > > Am Sonntag, 10. April 2005 08:14 schrieb Jon Murphy:
> > > > > I can't speak of the old lutenists, but there were many harpers of
> > > medieval
> > > > > and renaissance times who were blind. Although it is well past the
> > > > > renaissance era the Belfast Harp Festival of 1792 listed 10
harpers
> > > (nine
> > > > > men and one woman). Six of them are listed as blind. The prolific
> > > composer
> > > > > for the Celtic harp, Turlogh O'Carolan (1670-1738) was blind, but
> most
> > > of
> > > > > his pieces have been written down.
> > > > >
> > > > > Consider the position of the musician, before the complexities of
> our
> > > more
> > > > > modern orchestral compositions (and the specific composed pieces
of
> > > those
> > > > > such as Weiss). Or consider the position of the blind son of a
> decent
> > > > > family - and what proper occupation he could choose. O'Carolan was
> > > such -
> > > > > he couldn't work the farm, nor could he work in business - but he
> was
> > > > > supported in an apprenticeship on the harp, and he had the talent
to
> > > > > succeed. Could there not have been lutenists of the period who
> learned
> > > the
> > > > > basic tunes, and the harmonic structures, and who could play the
> > > instrument
> > > > > in combination with others - adding divisions and variations that
> fit
> > > the
> > > > > piece? Is the instrument limited only to the specific composers
that
> > we
> > > > > seem to worship (because their works are written down), or could
> there
> > > have
> > > > > been a great deal more?
> > > > >
> > > > > I speak with no knowledge (as I'm sure some of you may point out),
> but
> > > > > given the general history of music I think a lot of it was
> unwritten,
> > > and
> > > > > often improvised for the ocassion - somewhat like a modern jam
> session
> > > (or
> > > > > Irish "session"). When one takes any history entirely from the
> written
> > > > > record one can miss some nuance, and will miss the ambience of
much
> of
> > > the
> > > > > era.
> > > > >
> > > > > Try it, play a random set of notes (within a framework of a
scale),
> > then
> > > > > embellish it. You may come up with a fine piece (now try to
remember
> > how
> > > > > you did it).
> > > > >
> > > > > Best, Jon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Thomas Schall
> > > > Niederhofheimer Weg 3
> > > > D-65843 Sulzbach
> > > > 06196/74519
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
