Timothy,
I think we've all been there done that, not fun. My sympathies go out
to you and yours.
But, one thing kind of puzzles me. You say you still angled the neck
back.
If one has a straight plane from the nut to the bridge lets say, the
height of the first course above the fingerboard at the twelfth fret, is say
4mm, and the height at the nut is 1.40, that would put the height of the
string at the bridge at 7.80 mm and that's just the first course, the sixth
course would ride at 8.80 thus calling for an actual bridge that is in the
ballpark of 10.8mm on the bass and 9.8mm on the treble.......And that's if
the plane is just STRAIGHT from the nut to the bridge!!! Angle the neck
BACK as Lundberg suggests, and you end up with something that resembles the
bowed family of instruments.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Built-in action?
> Michael,
> No, it resulted in the opposite problem. The strings were about 2 mm
> above the neck at the join with the body, and there wasn't enough of an
> angle to the strings for them to clear the frets as I played, no matter
> how much I dropped the diameters of the frets as I went down the neck.
> I ended up making a new bridge that was higher and increased the angle
> of the strings (I also made the bridge higher on the bass side by about
> 1 mm, since most of the problem was on the 6th and 7th courses). I had
> angled back the neck on purpose (as you say, I was following Lundberg's
> advice), but I over-did it. The thought of taking the neck off and
> re-angling it was more than I wanted to contemplate, so the bridge
> seemed like the only alternative. In a way, it was an interesting
> problem and taught me a lot about string set-up and how to deal with
> problems. I learned that I could remove a bridge that had been glued
> (firmly) with hide glue and not damage the soundboard. Fortunately,
> I'm not making a living doing this, so I can screw up without it
> affecting my income. I would have been very unhappy if this lute had
> been intended for a client.
>
> Tim
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2005, at 05:57 PM, Michael Thames wrote:
>
> >
> >> I just got finished fixing a problem with the
> >> neck angling back too much, so I've had reason to know >what the
> >> effect of neck angle will be
> >
> > Timothy, sounds like you were reading Lundberg's bad advice about
> > angling the neck back. It should be angled forward. As you see this
> > doesn't
> > work out so well. Unless you like the strings to float 10mm off the
> > top.
> > Michael Thames
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>;
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: Built-in action?
> >
> >
> >> Michael,
> > Sure it does. If the neck angles back it brings the strings closer
> > to paralleling the neck, assuming that the height of the nut and
> > bridge stay the same. That in turn means that there is a limit to
> > how high you can raise the action by raising the nut before the
> > strings actually angle the wrong way relative to the neck. But the
> > angle of the neck doesn't have much affect on how high up off the
> > soundboard the strings will be. That is mostly determined by the
> > height of the bridge. I just got finished fixing a problem with the
> > neck angling back too much, so I've had reason to know what the
> > effect of neck angle will be.
> >
> > Tim
> >>
> >>
> >> ---- Original Message ----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: Built-in action?
> >> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:20:55 -0600
> >>
> >>>> Vance wrote,
> >>>> This is not entirely true. The most significant influence >upon
> >> the action
> >>>> of the Lute is the relationship between the nut and the >bridge and
> >> how
> >>> large
> >>>> the clearance is at the joint between the neck and the >belly.
> >>>
> >>> Vance this isn't true either. The only thing the angle of the
> >> neck
> >>> will affect, is how high off the top the strings ride at the bridge.
> >> It has
> >>> nothing to do with the action.
> >>> Michael Thames
> >>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> To: "lute list" <[email protected]>; "Herbert Ward"
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:34 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: Built-in action?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>> To: <[email protected]>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 3:35 PM
> >>>> Subject: Built-in action?
> >>>> Hi Herbert:
> >>>>
> >>>> You wrote: The action depends on where the _tops_ of the frets
> >> are,
> >>>>> which is controlled by the person who chooses the fret
> >>>>> diameters.
> >>>> This is not entirely true. The most significant influence upon
> >> the action
> >>>> of the Lute is the relationship between the nut and the bridge and
> >> how
> >>> large
> >>>> the clearence is at the joint between the neck and the belly. If
> >> this is
> >>>> not right it does not matter what kind of frets you choose to put
> >> on the
> >>>> Lute, the action will forever suck. The reason that a Lute over
> >> time will
> >>>> develop a slower or higher action is due to this joint becoming
> >> less than
> >>>> 180 degrees because the tension of the strings has pulled the neck
> >> higher.
> >>>>
> >>>> Vance Wood.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have a regard for the dedication and talent of luthiers,
> >>>>> who build fine instruments from unformed chunks of wood.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nevertheless, I do not quite understand why they are
> >>>>> credited with the action of a lute.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The luthier's work merely determines where the _bottoms_
> >>>>> of the frets are.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The action depends on where the _tops_ of the frets are,
> >>>>> which is controlled by the person who chooses the fret
> >>>>> diameters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
> >>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
