I have been wondering about the thinner, more percussive tone as well -- especially with all of the pinky wear marks behind the bridge. It actually seems like a natural evolution of the lute technique as ensembles grew and the lute needed to be heard. Just think about the lute shows you've seen where someone is playing thumb under, close to the rose and you can't hear them past the 5th row of the hall -- I've seen too many shows this way, a very frustrating experience. This technique sounds great, very full and warm, on recordings with mics up close but seems to be lacking in certain performance settings. Then you add some viols or singers and the lute just disappears. I can't imagine Dowland would write such interesting lute parts only to be drowned out by the viols. If the tone has a bit more high end and a more percussive quality it does seem to cut through better. I think players get hooked on the sound of the lute as they hear it up close and sometimes forget that a lot of the high end rolls off by the time it hits the audience, especially in a bigger room. We know that adding nails was for volume and is a valid historical practice (I think we know this, can't remember where I read it?). I'm wildly guessing that this change in tone and volume was a large reason why many players switched to thumb-out. It's actually not so much about volume but rather tone quality though. Opera singers tweak certain frequencies (it's called the Singer's Formant I think, around 3000khz) in their voice which allow it to shoot right through the orchestra without having to sing too loudly (but yes they are loud at times). There is a hole in the orchestra around the same frequencies which allows the voice to travel right on through to the audience. So, I think in the same way lute players would have considered which tone allowed the instrument to be best heard. Ok, alot of conjecture but seems to be common sense.
Chris --- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Jon Wrote, > >I can't speak to the use of nails on guitar or lute, I've >never used > >nails. > > Jon, very well put....... > > I think most of us first heard Bream's early recordings of lute music > played with nails on a hybrid lute guitar thing. While personally, in > theory I'm not opposed to nails on the lute, I was fascinated when I first > heard Paul Odette's recordings, and realized the beauty of the plucked sound > rather than a nail sound. > No self respecting modern classical guitarist plays without nails > thesedays. The modern guitar is designed for much higher tension strings, > and the overall focus of balance is much more refined to the bass resonance, > ( the nail brings out the right amount of brilliance), as opposed to say a > Panormo, or lacote, which has a built in treble response, and works > perfectly with out nails. The fan braced Panormo ( not so bright ) will tend > to sound better with nails than the ladder ( lute like ) braced model. > Stephen Stubbs gets a fantastic sound from the Baroque lute, and I've > been told he plays with very long nails. However, I've tried using nails on > the Baroque lute and it doesn't work for me. > The really strange thing is that most all thumb out, hand positions > shown in paintings show the fingers at a 90 degree angle to the stings, and > I've never seen anyone play this way thesedays. If you try it whether on > gut or nylon one gets a very thin tone. Perhaps the trend in the early > 1600's was towards a thin percussive tone? > MT > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Greg M. Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Michael Thames" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Mathias RXsel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute > net" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: Neceffarie obferuations > > > > Michael, > > > >> I couldn't tell you the physical principles involved. Maybe it has to > > do > >> with friction and mass, and the fact they play with rest stroke. > >> All I can say is it true!.... and Paco plays 10 times as fast as > > any > >> of the guys you mentioned, and plays with nails... I know this because I > > saw > >> one of his nails ( a fake one ) explode into the sky above the audience > >> at > > a > >> concert once. > > > > I can't speak to the use of nails on guitar or lute, I've never used > > nails. > > But I've observed it on the harp (easier to see as the instrument is more > > open). The players of the wire strung harp (the Celtic Clearsach) use > > nails, > > the more modern gut or nylon players use finger pads. The "pluck" is a > > shorter stroke with nails on the wire harp, and the possibility of speed > > better. Your physical principles of friction and mass are correct. > > > > But there is also the matter of skills, a big man can hit a baseball (or > > golf ball) farther than a small man - unless that small man has > > exceptional > > "hand speed". So to say (as someone did) that there is one player who can > > play with fingertips as fast as others with nails is to compare apples and > > oranges. Any one individual may have an exceptional talent that overrides > > a > > perceived disadvantage. (As size, in the "hitter" - or nails in the > > player). > > > > To extrapolate the general from the specific is normally an error. The > > balalaika or mandolin player with a pick is probably going to make faster > > runs than the p/i player with nails, and the finger tip player will > > probably > > be a bit slower. Unless the finger picker is using all his fingers as a > > roll > > (that the nail player can also do). The issue is moot. The guitar is a > > higher tension, the nylon/gut guitar can be played with nails. The lute > > and > > harp have a bit less tension and the sound production is better with > > finger > > pads, except the wire strung harp (and I'm not sure about that, I've > > played > > them with fingertips). And since when did speed become music, a well paced > > piece is more enjoyable to me than a virtuoso race. I confess I took piano > > lessons 60 years ago until I could play Jack Fina's Bumble Boogie (a > > boogie > > woogie version of Flight of the Bumble Bee). In later years I've learned > > that music isn't meant to be a contest of speed, it is a matter of the > > appropriate pace, and the voices of the piece. > > > > Best, Jon > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
