Dear Chris, thank you for pointing to this question. I usually use designations like "lute guitar" or "guitar lute" to avoid the dilemma of not being able to answer the question of where there's a dividing line, but I am perfectly aware that the six-string instruments with a lute body were thought of as simply lutes. Within the field of instruments in question I tend to think of instruments with a lute-back as lutes and of instruments with a back made of sides (unsure about the terminology, in German they are called "Zargen") and a seperate back as guitars, even if there are 24 strings organised in courses ... but that is naive morphology ...
All best wishes, Joachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: >Joachim, > > > I find this to be very interesting, but it calls >to mind a question: what exactly _is_ the difference >between a lute and a "guitar" made in the shape of a >lute? I.E. is a lute defined by its shape, double >strings, interior construction, tuning, or something >else.? We have no problem accepting a single-strung >theorbo or the guitar-like tuning of the gallichon as >members of the lute family. Where's the dividing >line? > > >Chris > >--- "Joachim Lüdtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Dear Martyn, >> >> it may be indeed that there is a direct link between >> the Mandora and the early six-string lute guitar but >> to me it seems difficult to find hard evidence. Lute >> instruments were made into lute guitars quite some >> time before 1828 if we may believe Jacob August Otto >> who testifies to this in a book published in 1828 >> (he writes about newly built lute guitars, too). >> There are some extant lutes made into six string >> instruments but these seem all to be of a later date >> (one or two possible exceptions - but these show >> suspicous features ...). However, I think there was >> a time (roughly around 1800) when lutes and guitars >> began to -- say -- "exchange ideas" [;)] ... >> >> Joachim >> >> "Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> schrieb: >> > >> >I presume you're both aware of Molitor's report in >> the early 1800s that he met a Mandora player >> (precursor of the German 'lute guitar'?) who told >> him he had changed to single strings like the >> contemporary guitar since it was easier............ >> > >> >Martyh Hodgson >> > >> >Kenneth Sparr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >Dear Joachim, >> > >> >I'm sure there a lot of things concerning the >> history of the lute and the >> >guitar in the early 20th century that are still >> uncovered. Your article >> >indeed was a substantial contribution to our >> knowledge and I thank you for >> >that. As Scholander made such a great success in >> Germany I find difficult to >> >believe that he didn't exercise a considerable >> influence even if he didn't >> >had contact with the Scherrer-circle (or the other >> way round?). >> > >> >Concerning the single-string lute question the >> Swedish lute (or Sittra as it >> >was also called) already got its single strings as >> early as the end of the >> >18th century, but it developed from the cittern. >> Certainly there is more >> >research needed also concerning the development of >> the Swedish lute. >> > >> >I searched Bacher's Lautenfibel for many years and >> finally found it via >> >ZVAB, the excellent German search engine for >> antiquarian books. It may have >> >some Internet when we describe the "renaissance" of >> lute playing from >> >tablature. >> > >> >Best wishes >> > >> >Kenneth Sparr >> >Stromstigen 25 >> >S-149 51 Nynashamn >> >SWEDEN >> > >> >Telephone: +46-852015561 >> >www.tabulatura.com >> >e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >> >Från: Joachim Lüdtke >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >Skickat: den 9 oktober 2005 20:07 >> >Till: Kenneth Sparr; lute-list (Renaissance) >> >Ämne: Re: [LUTE] The German lute movement and the >> guitar-lute >> > >> >Dear Kenneth, >> > >> >thank you for your mail - I didn't know that my >> article would be of interest >> >to anyone outside Germany although I know that the >> guitar lute and its >> >relatives were not confined to the German spoken >> countries. >> > >> >I have not mentioned Scholander because I am unsure >> about the extent to >> >which he influenced the singers of "lute songs" and >> the lute players in the >> >Germany of his time and because he seems to have >> had no contact to the >> >Scherrer-circle. In changing the Swedish lute into >> a single string >> >instrument he may be seen as following a process >> which started in the early >> >nineteenth century. >> > >> >Where did you find Bacher`s Fibel? Thank you for >> drawing our attention to >> >it. I will try to find a copy. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >To get on or off this list see list information at >> >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >> > >> >--------------------------------- >> >Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC >> calling worldwide with voicemail >> >-- >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Dr. Joachim Luedtke >> Frühlingsstraße 9a >> D - 93164 Laaber >> Tlf.: ++49 / +9498 / 905 188 >> Mobil: 0172 / 275 49 48 >> Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > -- Dr. Joachim Luedtke Frühlingsstraße 9a D - 93164 Laaber Tlf.: ++49 / +9498 / 905 188 Mobil: 0172 / 275 49 48 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
