Dear Stewart, Thank you for this. However you're mistaken in thinking it not important wether the gut loop was from the 18thC. The gut could, for example, have been put on anytime after the instrument's last use as a Gallichon/Mandora; perhaps to hang it on a wall as a decorative feature (particularly popular in 20thC) or perhaps to help in holding the instrument by a guitarist (say, in the mid 19thC during the period of great experimentation with guitars - it's interesting to see that the earlier tied frets [marks on back of neck] were replaced at some time by fixed ivory frets). In neither case would it therefore directly inform us of lute holding practice in the 18thC. To elaborate: the Stautinger gut was a single string fastened with no slack between the two pins with a loop about an inch and a half in diameter tied about half way along. If it was contemporary with the use of the instrument in the 18thC in might, indeed, tell us something about practice on the 18thC (and even earlier) lute but if we choose to ignore the uncertainty over the date it might as easily mislead us into assuming that this was the usual method of tying a gut loop between the two pins(buttons) on a lute. Perhaps, in fact, the early practice was for a much longer loop hung round the neck - who knows? Actually I do think the Stautinger fastening the more likely but it's important to recognise that the provenance is not known and we must therefore be very chary in drawing conclusions. A particular problem is making this sort of loop work in practice - after a number of requests I've found no one who can get satisfactory results: as Ed Durbrow amusingly replied to my previous enquiry (April 2005) about wether anyone had tried it " Yes, horribly unstable, but good for a spin a la ZZ Top.............." ; this echoes my own experiences. I'm interested to know that you haven't tried it yet - perhaps you could and let me know your views in due course. The table method can work but one needs to sit upright and hold the instrument higher than most modern players care to but, on the basis of early evidence, was commonly the practice of the Old Ones. An added advantage seems to be enhanced resonance (shades of the Tripodion). rgds Martyn PS If you look in The LuteVol XXVI Part 2 1986 on page 56 you'll see photos of the Stautinger instrument and in the top RH photo might just make out the gut string on the back. Not having seen the instrument for over 20 years, I don't know wether the loop is still there..................... The photos also nicely show the marks of earlier gut frets on the back of the neck. tewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Martyn,
Very interesting what you say about the Stautinger gallichon. Whether or not the gut was from the 18th century is not so important. The main thing is that gut was tied to the buttons of the instrument at some stage. It's not a decorative feature, so it must have been put there for a practical reason. I see no reason to doubt Robert Spencer's hypothsesis that gut was tied to the back of instruments to help stabilise them. To answer your question, I have not tried playing a lute with gut tied at the back, so I have no first-hand practical experience to relate. Yet even if I had, and, like you, had not found the gut idea helpful, that in itself wouldn't preclude the possibility of other players in the past having used gut to stabilise the lute. From time to time I have followed Thomas Mace's suggestion of leaning the lute against a table, but without much success. You are right that this question has been discussed on this list before. There was also a message to the Italian Lute Net on 12th May 2002, which gives a further reference to _Early Music_: -o-O-o- Si può vedere anche quadri di bottoni e di cinghie in un altro articolo di Robert Spencer, "Chitarrone, theorbo, and archlute", _Early Music_ vol 4 no.4 (Oct. 1976), pp. 407-423. David van Edwards ha messo quest' articolo sul suo website: http://www.vanedwar.macunlimited.net/spencer/html/index.html -o-O-o- In other words: "You can also see pictures of buttons and straps in another article by Robert Spencer, "Chitarrone, theorbo, and archlute", _Early Music_ vol 4 no.4 (Oct. 1976), pp. 407-423. David van Edwards has put this article on his website." As part of that discussion, Pietro Prosser put forward the idea that one could attach a strap to the two buttons, instead of a piece of gut. This was in turn discounted with reference to David van Edwards' website, where he writes: "Certainly several surviving lutes in museums have the buttons and in some cases either the string, usually of gut, or at least grooves in the varnish showing where it was tightly tied." Yes, it would be nice to hear from someone who has had success with this particular method of stabilising the lute. Best wishes, Stewart. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson" To: "Stewart McCoy" ; "Lute Net" Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:15 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute strap/gut loop > > Dear Stewart, > > The business of holding lutes with straps/ gut loops was aired about a year ago and you'll no doubt find the communications in the archives. > > At the time I was particularly interested in the gut loop option since, in the late 70s, I had done some restoration work on a Gallichon/Mandora (Stautinger 1773) which not only had these buttons on the body but also actually had a loop of gut tied between them; wether the gut loop was 18thC is, of course, quite another matter. > > Whilst the use of a loop round a button seemed, on the face of it, an eminently practical and sensible thoery; the difficulty I had was in making it work in practice. I asked if any one else had tried it and, I recall, only got a single response which echoed my own negative experience. > > Have you actually tried this method or do you know of anybody who has? More to the point if you, or others, have tried it what has been the experience? > > MH To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. --
