I have been diplomatically silent on this one thus far, but here is what I have to say:
I admire Sting, for being who he is. I liked him in the Police, I like the way he sings, plays guitar, bass guitar, and writes pop songs. He has quite often gone into new directions... I recall a very satisfying rendition of "Mack the Knife". So, after he received the gift of an archlute, it seems obvious that his excitement over this new discovery would make him want to do a new recording. I think we should accept it for what it is....... Sting having fun, and being excited about his newly acquired instrument. I doubt he was in any way concerned with the HIP audience.... God knows, with his fame, he does not need it. It is merely him, doing what he does... one of those things he does is to try to be versatile. With the Labrynth CD, it is certainly that. In terms of single vs double strung archlute, does it matter? When I saw him on TV last year, singing a folk song to accompaniment with his archlute, it was definitely single strung (and, he avoided playing any basses). He is a good musician, and a successful one. But, in the areas of fine lute playing, he is a neophyte; compare his playing to , say, Paul O'Dette, Nigel North, Hoppy Smith, not to mention lesser known professionals. No comparison at all - if compared to them, he is way out of his league. But, keep in mind, he is not trying to be any of those 3 lutenists..... I wonder if he is even aware of any of the great lute professionals. And, I agree, that the sound is very jarring from hearing the snippets (in fact, so jarring that it banishes friendly sleep [quoting Dowland]). I suggest that Paul, Nigel, or Hoppy record a CD of Sting's greatest hits. ed At 09:25 PM 9/25/2006 -0400, Daniel Shoskes wrote: >Well, to read your post and none of the discussion that precedes it, >one would think that you are the shining voice against a sea of >narrow minded HIP obsessed elitists who can't accept a performance >unless the players have authentic 16th century food in their stomachs >while they play. It's easy to argue when you mis-represent the >opposing view. Nobody expected Emma Kirkby. No-one expected an >attempt at HIP other than bringing a different pop sensibility to >great music. Mark is upset that a (possibly) single strung archlute >was used but it was a solitary opinion. > >I welcomed and was excited about this CD for all the reasons I >previously posted. But based on the available sound samples, it's not >that it is different from what O'Dette and Hargis or McFarlane and >Baird would have done. It is that it sounds REALLY bad, as it does to >the many ears of a rather diverse group of international lutenists of >very different backgrounds, experience and sensibilities. We both >agree that it is mic'd too closely. I guess we disagree about the >incredibly breathy singing with over enunciated vowels. We also >disagree about the sound quality of the lute (I personally couldn't >care less if it was lute, archlute, theorbo, or Apple GarageBand) and >the interpretation. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that in a >"blind taste test", without knowing who was performing, I would have >had the same negative reaction to the clips. I really wonder whether >everyone praising them could say the same. Would be interesting to >try with classical neophytes (think I might try that). Will be sure >to include the Forge Players in the mix: http://phobos.apple.com/ >WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=999003&s=143441 (I especially >like the wail of Come Again). > >Nevertheless, I have included a link from my website to Amazon, so >I'll pocket 5% of every CD sold to any of the 30 or so visitors a day >to my site (Hypcriticaly Instigated Payment?)! >DS > >On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:08 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: > > > Dear Rick and Paul, > > > > Thank you for your common-sense contributions. The Sting thread has > > aroused many passions. I am inclined to think that many of the > > contributions have been sent in by a load of fuddy-duddies. I am > > reminded of my old school chaplain, who disliked the Beatles, and > > seemed to resent their popularity. When I told him that I liked > > their music, he was aghast. "What sort of voices do they have? Are > > they tenors?" he asked scathingly. It was the wrong question. They > > weren't tenors. To be a tenor, meant singing classical music with a > > trained voice. The Beatles did something else, and it was a mistake > > on the chaplain's part to try to judge them by inappropriate > > criteria. > > > > So it is with many of the critical comments levelled against Sting. > > If we expect him to sound like Emma Kirkby, we shall be > > disappointed. He sings Dowland his own way. His performance of "Can > > she excuse my wrongs" has excitement and passion. The out-of-tune > > notes may grate on our refined ears, but at least they are sung with > > committment. It is an angry, passionate song, supposedly about the > > Earl of Essex' unrequited love for Queen Elizabeth. How many times > > have I heard it sung beautifully by an angelic voice, perfectly in > > tune, and with no more fire than a damp squib: in tune, but utterly > > flat? > > > > Does HIP matter? Is it a sine qua non? Is Sting trying to promulgate > > a historically informed performance? Probably not. He has his own > > agenda. The irony of it all is, his performance is as likely to be > > as HIP as any other. How do we know Dowland and his contemporaries > > didn't sing that way? > > > > Much has been said in criticism of Karamazov, the lutenist. For me, > > his performance is also exciting, and I am impressed by the > > spectacular divisions at the end of the sound clip. His great crime > > seems to be performing Dowland on an archlute, and with single > > strings. My Goodness! How could he do such a thing? Wherever was he > > brought up? Yet, as one who has played the music of Francesco da > > Milano on an 8-course lute with nylgut strings, I would hesitate to > > throw the first HIP stone. > > > > For me, the big mistake is having the microphones too close to the > > performers. If that is the sound they are after, good luck to them, > > but I suspect it was imposed on them by a sound engineer unfamiliar > > with lutes. If the mike is too close, it will capture that harsh, > > brittle sound you get when you have your ears right up to the lute > > ribs. Ideally the mikes should be some distance away, where they are > > more likely to capture the sound a listener would normally hear from > > an accoustic instrument. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Stewart McCoy. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lindberg Richard-MGIA0539" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Paul Pleijsier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:59 PM > > Subject: *** SPAM *** [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! > > > > > >> My feelings exactly. I think it is pretty cool for a pop musician > > to try > >> anything like this whether it's historically accurate or not. At > > least > >> John Dowland's music will be brought to a new audience if nothing > > else. > >> Who knows what additonal interest that will pique. > >> > >> Rick > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Paul Pleijsier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:26 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! > >> > >>> If the CD sounds anything like what you can hear at Amazon then > > it > >>> must go down as one of the worst lute recordings of all times. > > What > >>> are those amazingly loud string noises ? > >> > >> Please try to see what it really is: a fantasy performing style, > > pop > >> influenced, though not standard Sting-pop, with a poppy use of the > >> studio, exaggerating string noise, compression etc., trying to > > find the > >> missing link between lute playing and modern pyrotechnics. Let's > > give > >> Sting and his luter the thumbs up for trying something different. > >> > >> PP > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
