> There is also a recently surfaced Railich in Prague, that is likely to be an > altered angelique.
Wolfgang Emmerich (Berlin) examined it and recently wrote contributions about it to the Lute News (Lute Society, GB) and to the Info (German Lute Society). If memory serves, he didn't even mention the possibility that that lute might formerly have been an angelique. > I was told by an extremely edudite individual a couple of weeks ago that > several swan-neck pegboxes show evidence of alterations consistent with > their origins as angeliques. At any rate, surviving angeliques aren't converted theorbos. That much can safely be said. > > We must be very careful! There exist an Angelique in Paris (E. > > 980.2.317, see the new catalogue p. 94) with a neck (not a swan neck, > > but also not a true theorbo neck - it's something between) who is > > known from French iconographic sources from 1660-80. Do you mean to say that that instrument can be seen on several (!!) contemporaneous paintings? How do you know it is that very angelique? Or is it the kind of neck (on lutes, though), rather, that was portayed in 1660-80? > > I know a Tielke lute from 1680 in Zurich (the label is disapeared...) > > who was probably changed from 11-course to an Angelique with a swan > > neck and then changed to a "normal" 13-course lute. Which evidence is there for that in-between-stadium as an angelique? > > So we always have to distinct between the different layers of the > > "development" of an old lute! Achieved luthiers will be able to do that. What I'd be interested in is evidence for angeliques, in this case. Surviving angeliques are small (string lengths of 54 to 71 cm), single strung, swan-necked instruments. -- Best, Mathias http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel > >>>> Swan-necks on angeliques predate the > >>>> purported/alleged "invention" by some > >>>> 50 years. > >> > >>>> The oldest two out of those four angeliques in Schwerin date from > >>>> 1704 > >>>> (both made by Tielke). One angelique in Munich is a former lute, > >>>> dated > >>>> from 1633. (According to Pohlmann 1982, p. 596-7) > >> > >>> Kremberg's book is from 1689, as I recall... > >> > >> Yes, indeed. Do you happen to know of surviving angeliques from > >> Kremberg's days which would prove that they were built as swan necks > >> then, already? > >> -- > >> Best, > >> > >> Mathias > >> > >>>>> The angelique is essentially a converted _theorbo_, > >>>>> not a lute. > >>>> > >>>> Facing vibrating string lengths of 53 cm (Leipzig), 54 cm > >>>> (Brussels), 64 > >>>> cm (Munich), and ca 70 cm (four instruments in Schwerin, one in > >>>> Prague), > >>>> that seems improbable. If at all, angeliques were converted > >>>> lutes, not > >>>> theorbos. > >>>> > >>>> Only one out of survivng eight angeliques appears to be a converted > >>>> lute, however. Seven others were built as angeliques. That might > >>>> suggest > >>>> that the angelique was an instrument of its own right, not a > >>>> result of > >>>> conversions. > >>>> > >>>>> In this case, the theorboed extension was > >>>>> already there and the "swan-necking" was merely a > >>>>> characteristically French architechtural flourish of > >>>>> an existing product. > >>>> > >>>> I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that swan necks are > >>>> characterically German. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
