Dear Paul, Chris and all Le 10 fevr. 07 =E0 17:47, Paul Pleijsier a ecrit : Hi Anthony, first question: are you sure that the subtle qualities you'd like to hear are at all captured in the original recordings?
Most probably not often, as Chris says : "Too many recordings of solo lute music of extremely intimate character are recorded in cathedrals with the closest microphone being six feet away and other mics set up to capture the ambient sound of the hall." This is exactly what John Buckman of Magnatune has to say : "I believe that the "classical music belongs in a church" philosophy is killing the genre, by making the sound (both in performance and on CD) a huge echoing distant mush. For a long time, classical music was played in small chambers, or at dinner parties, and later it was played in concert settings. Historically, the church has been only one of the settings for this music. It's time we rediscovered our past and put early music back into small settings. Despite my wife being a harpsichordist, I never liked the instrument because I'd only heard it in concerts at churches, where all you hear is "clang, clang, clang." My mouth dropped when I first heard a harpsichord in a small room in Berkeley. There was depth, subtlety and tonal range that no-one ever hears in a church. I couldn't believe what an injustice had been done to this great instrument." However, listening to an LP and its transfer to CD give the impression that the digital retrieval is not so good. Of course, this could be due to the transfer, rather than to the CD and the player. As Chris says "Unfortunately for most, however, hearing lute performances in a room, as opposed to a hall, remains the exception." And this is often what we hear on records too. Second: Are you sure that the retrieval of them is mainly the responsability of the CD player? As the system is acceptable on LP, I tend to believe it is CD playback rather than the system. I guess you have to listen to systems in the better shops. Only your own ears can tell you what's good for you. You are right, but not all players are easily accessible, and it would be advisable to have a few target players to find to listen to, ideally of course in my own listening room, but this is not usually possible. I rather hoped some lute players had found a machine they were really happy with. I will give Edward's Sony DVD player a listen to. And then there's just a plain tip: the Quad electrostatic speaker reveals details like no other. If you love lute; there can hardly better anything better. This is not just my personal opinion, as some quick google-ing will show. Indeed I do have Quad ELS 57s, among the best for midrange speakers ever made in my opinion. Or am I off topic here? Probably, but we are talking about lute music Success, Paul PS: I am also of the gut-persuasion (for 19th c.guitars, an extra problem being to find silk basses..). I have never heard a recording of myself which comes anywhere near to what I feel is my true sound. Yes I think the nearest you can get to the real sound is a recording made on a full speed Nagra or Studer analogue tape-recorder, but even then it will not capture everything. However, I would settle for much less. Regards Anthony Le 10 fevr. 07 =E0 17:47, Paul Pleijsier a ecrit : > Hi Anthony, > first question: are you sure that the subtle qualities you'd like > to hear are at all captured in the original recordings? > Second: Are you sure that the retrieval of them is mainly the > responsability of the CD player? > I guess you have to listen to systems in the better shops. Only > your own ears can tell you what's good for you. > And then there's just a plain tip: the Quad electrostatic speaker > reveals details like no other. If you love lute; there can hardly > better anything better. This is not just my personal opinion, as > some quick google-ing will show. > Or am I off topic here? > Success, > Paul > PS: I am also of the gut-persuasion (for 19th c.guitars, an extra > problem being to find silk basses..). I have never heard a > recording of myself which comes anywhere near to what I feel is my > true sound. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Hind" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Lute Net" <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 11:28 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Slightly off the gut topic? > > >> To all who do not find this too off topic >> >> Choice of strings and choice of recording equipment (microphones, >> etc) are clearly IN topics; but I am not sure that CD play-back is >> (even if the lute is central to my question); so if anyone answers >> this, they may prefer to reply directly to my mail. >> >> Over the last two years, one evening a month, I have had the good >> fortune of being able to hear Renaissance and Baroque instruments in >> the context of a Parisian "salon" (lutes, guitars, harpsichords, and >> even, ouds). Thus I am so aware of the discrepancy between the sound >> of an instrument, in such a context, and what people usually hear >> through their hifi systems in their own "salon". >> >> Recent communications mentioned listening to the quality of gut >> strings through the computer, using MP3 streaming. I feel that it is >> already very difficult to hear the sort of musical texture I expect >> from gut strings with a CD, on an average CD player, let alone on >> MP3. There just does not seem to be enough detail and micro-dynamics >> to be able to clearly hear the very special response of gut strings, >> or any other strings for that matter. Indeed, it is rare to be able >> to hear the micro-dynamics of the slightly rasping attack or the >> crucial timing of the slowly dying note on a CD (I suppose this is >> what hifi experts call "inner detail"). Macro-dynamics (overall >> range), which are not really relevant to the lute, may well be >> acceptably captured. >> >> My use of the word "gut-nut " (in a previous gut message), developed >> from my exasperation with this situation, which lead me to >> communicate with a number of hifi specialists, including an American >> hifi company called "Audionuts". I tried to convey to them what I was >> hoping to hear from a CD player, without paying the ridiculously >> exorbitant prices that so-called "audiophile" players cost. After a >> very helpful discussion with them, the "Audionut " person told me >> "You are most definitely a true audionut." >> And of course I took that as a very positive term, in the vocabulary >> of this audiophile. It follows that my use of "gut-nut " should be >> understood in the same positive sense. >> >> However, as a "gut-nut", when listening to lute music, I certainly >> give almost as much importance to the texture of the sounds as to the >> notes and rhythm (but the timing of the slowly dying note is, in any >> case, crucial to the rhythm in the wider sense). I am aware that many >> musicians feel no compulsion what ever even to listen to records, >> having no time for non-live music and sometimes preferring to shun >> listening to other people's performances; others feel they are so >> musically aware that they can reconstruct the performance from the >> most miserable of sound systems. While even others, use MP3 and >> computers through convenience, because it does allow you to analyze >> very closely some aspects of a person's performance. >> >> So my question is for the few, who like myself, really do like to >> listen to other performer's lute music and want to hear the lute as a >> lute, and not as some sort of amplified electric-lute with no >> delicacy. My own ancient CDP, a 16 x 2 Sony player, recently began to >> die, and an attempted replacement, a highly reputed player that will >> remain nameless, was quite unable to give me the sort of detail that >> I was hoping for, and then took a nose dive after barely a week. >> >> I would therefore be very grateful for a few personal messages, from >> lutists who could put me in the direction of a CD player that is not >> outlandishly expensive, but that does seem to retrieve some of the >> micro-details I have described here. >> >> Thinking a little more about this, as many lute players do take great >> care in how they have their lute music recorded, they may well care, >> that much of this precious information is just lost in the vagueness >> of playback systems; so perhaps this is not quite so OUT of topic. >> nevertheless, I fear that for many, the computer has become so >> central to their lives, as indeed it is to mine, that MP3 may well be >> changing our listening sensitivities. >> Regards >> Anthony >> >> P.S. I nevertheless thank those very generous players like Edward >> Martin & Paul Berget, Jacob Heringman, Paul Beier, and others, who >> give us access to their music through Magnatune. It would be churlish >> to criticize the MP3 quality of this very generous gift (which is >> much better than most other MP3 streaming); and I hope this does not >> prevent people from buying the corresponding CDs, as I have done >> myself (some of these are remarkably well recorded, see the >> interviews of the recording engineers on the Magnatune site). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
