Dear Bruno
If you look at my previous message to you, you should see that I
sent the message to yourself, and to Martin So you will find his
address on that mail.
If you can't access it, you can go to http://www.luteshop.co.uk/. His
mail is there (but he may be away during the vacation, fleeing from
the heavy rain in his area).
KF strings are not carbon, apparently, but pvc of some sort. I think
they will probably be less slippery (smooth) than carbon, perhaps
more textured like nylgut.
I wonder whether the texture does not lead to a different type of
contact with the finger, which perhaps explains partly this
'presence' you speak of with nylgut.
Reading Savarez description, they claim that the elasticity and
density of these strings is close to gut, while being more sonorous
than the gut equivalent (this density claim, however, seems somewhat
contradicted by the rough equivalences with nylon that I sent you in
my previous message).
This difference in sonority, it is claimed, increases as the diameter
is increased. Thus they could be a very interesting alternative to
either nylgut or carbon.
Hopefully, they might have the presence of nylgut, and the sustain of
carbon. The ideal string you seem to be looking for.
The elasticity question could also be important, as several people
have told me that a top in nylgut is inferior to either nylon or gut,
as it just continues to stretch, and finally becomes too thin,
tending to go false.
I am unable to compare nylgut and carbon directly as a player. I have
only personally used gut and nylgut, but never carbon. However, I did
notice that when a friend restrung his lute in carbon, rather than
nylgut, it became much louder, and could really fill a room, but it
also seemed to have lost much of its previous subtlety and harmonics.
Another player told me he had come back to nylgut, because he found
the texture of carbon was too smooth and slippery, and he felt he had
less finger-tip contact than with nylgut. KF may not suffer from this
to the same extent.
Another person you might consult about carbon, is David Van Edwards,
lute maker. According to D.v.E. there seems to be little if any
difference between carbon fishing line and carbon lute strings. See
his message here at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
msg19938.html
"Indeed the carbon music strings are just fishing line, as has been
revealed by the withdrawal of 0.7 size [the one I find most useful
for the 4th course] from the string-makers list at the same time as
it has vanished from the fishing line range. I went looking around
fishing sites and shops hoping for an old unsold reel of 0.7 but no
luck."
There is a long discussion on the list about that. If I remember, it
turns out that smaller diameters can be obtained from fresh water
carbon lines, and thicker ones from sea fishing lines.
You can find his mail, here, http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/index.htm
I also see you sent a message to the group saying,
"I strongly believe that what makes a
person a lutenist is not the type of string he uses, it is rather his
knowledge of lute technique, control of his sound production and good
taste.
I remember Eugene Ferre playing on an all carbon set and his sound was
excellent, not to mention his great playing. I personally have the
impression that nylgut is not very projective and has a poor sustain,
although it feels good under the fingers. The first and the second
courses
might work fine."
I was told Eugene Ferre recently made an exceptional Dowland
performance here in Paris; and all those who were present tell me
that it was out of this world. I regret having missed this. I also
agree with what you say about the lute player, and his technique,
being more important than the strings he uses; but I also believe,
that his skills will evolve differently according to the lutes and
strings that he uses. Each string type has its special qualities and
defects, and a good player will surely learn to bring the qualities
forward and hold the defects back, but this will inevitably lead to
his style changing over time. If he then picks up a lute strung
differently, he will probably find that his technique does not suit
this different stringing. It does not necessarily follow that the
stringing is worse, just different.
David van Ooijen told me that some compositions that Satoh made on
synthetic strings just don't work well on gut, while some he made on
gut don't work on synthetics.
This goes a little against what I just said, as it seems to imply
that there are inherent qualities of string types that cannot be
compensated for by technique, but I think this does not in fact
refute the idea that a performer will still try to compensate, and
that this can, over a period, lead to changes in style.
I hope you find a more satisfactory stringing for your lute, and KF
could be a way to go. However, I think string choices are both a
subject of pleasure and constant dissatisfaction.
New strings do need to stabilize and so you can't judge them on the
instant you put them on the lute. Then just as you begin to feel
entirely happy with your choice, you start to think they might need
changing again, and the process recommences.
Regards
Anthony
Le 16 aout 07 =E0 05:18, Bruno Correia a ecrit :
> Hi Anthony,
>
> Thank you so much about by enquiry. I suspect the KF has a similar
> density to the Pyramid carbon (pvf). It's curious that Martin does
> not use them on the other courses... Do you have his e-mail by any
> chance? I'd like to ask him a few questions.
> I'm not pleased up until now with whatsoever string brand or
> combination of materials on my lute. At the moment I have carbon
> from the first up to the fourth and then nylgut basses with
> octaves. Actually, I like carbon for many reasons but unfortunately
> the strings are very thin because of their high density which leads
> to less presence than nylgut.
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
> 2007/8/15, Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Dear Bruno
> Martin Shepherd was particularly suggesting the use of KF on the
> 5th course of a Renaissance lute. This is what Jacob Heringman
> sometimes uses combined with nylgut on the top courses, and gut
> diapasons below ( http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
> msg19947.html). I don't know why he does not use KF on the top
> courses, but I imagine it may be they are a little less bright than
> nylgut. I would advise you to ask Martin Shepherd directly about that.
>
>
> I have an old Savarez catalogue, and I have tried to compare across
> examples of stringing of various instruments in Nylon and KF, sorry
> there are no examples of carbon, as such. There is no comparative
> table in the catalogue, which seems strange, and comparing across
> examples of stringing of actual instruments gives only a very
> approximate equivalence, as the other strings used can also vary
> slightly and contribute something to the overall tension.
>
>
> It seems that compared to nylon the KF have a greater weight by
> unity of length (same as carbon I suspect), as where on a 13c
> Baroque lute, strung to give an average tension of 2,7KG, at
> diapason 415 Hz, the first course at Fa-F is given as nylon
> diameter NN40, it is KF 33; the 2nd course at RE-D is given at
> NN47, but KF41, the third course at LA-A , is given as NN60, but
> KF50, the fourth at FA-F is given as NN74, but KF66.
> From other instruments, I find the following approximate
> equivalences, but these can only give a rough guide. Someone in the
> list may know the exact density value. If you would prefer, I can
> try to ask Svarez the answer, but I expect they would answer to an
> English message ( [EMAIL PROTECTED]).
>
>
> Looking at other instruments, I find the following substitutions of
> nylon for KF (but again, the other strings do not always remain
> absolutely identical, so these substitutions can only be an
> indication).
> NN40 : KF 33
> NN47 : K41
> NN55 : KF43
> NN60 : KF50
> NN64 : KF52
> NN68 : KF57
> NN63 : KF52
> NN74 : KF66
> NN100 : KF86
> Perhaps you can work out an average comparative rating from this to
> apply, to other values, which might be close enough to reality to
> be used as a working hypothesis. I expect you can easilly find an
> equivalence between nylon and Pyramid Carbon, so that could be a help.
> I am sure others would be interested in your experiments, as I do
> not hear very much about these strings. They may not be suitable
> for all courses, but Martin Shepherd seems to have experience with
> many string types, and the fact that he finds KF very good, at
> least on some, would be a good recommendation.
> Best regards
> Anthony
> PS I sent a message to Savarez, but it is the 15th of August today
> (a French national holiday), so I doubt whether I will get a rapid
> reply.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Le 15 aout 07 =E0 04:34, Bruno Correia a ecrit :
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Anthony,
>>
>>
>> Reading your message I became curious to try these strings by
>> Savarez. Unfortunately my French is very poor. Do you know by any
>> chance the density of these strings? Are they similar to the
>> carbon strings by Pyramid?
>>
>> Best wishes.
>>
>>
>> > I would be much in favour of more research into synthetics that
>> come
>> > closer to gut. Martin Shepherd told me that Savarez KF strings are
>> > close indeed to having the best properties of gut, http://www.mail-
>> > archive.com/[email protected]/msg19947.html
>
>
>
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