Martin , and all, It sounds like Martin and I have had similar experiences with customers and have come to similar if not the same conclusions as luthiers. I thank all for the input. Experienced players usually know what they want, and commission a particular instrument. I usually don't get put in a position of giving recommendations on what instrument other than explaining commonly known characteristics of popular historical designs. In the past, I thought that the advice to go 8 on the first buy came from college music departments without a specific lute program. This thread has proved different. The question or problem of courses, for me, only comes up with first time buyers who are transitioning from guitar to lute. I try not to ever contradict the buyers instructor's advise, but have never held back from offering my opinion. For the reasons best put by David about 6 and 7s "give the most insights into the music" in conjunction with points brought up by Martin and others, I have been promoting the 7c as the place to start for Renaissance lute music. My conclusion: It is good to know from this discourse that I have done no wrong by steering new buyers toward a 7c. However, I don't have to feel bad about finishing the "built to spec" bowls with 8c necks already on them due to the market demand for a more practical approach. If you think about , how many people who love the lute ever end up with only one lute? ---just food for thought. Thank you all, MB
Martin Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear All, It seems I am not alone amongst lutemakers in questioning the motives of my customers when they say they want an 8c lute. There still seems to be an assumption that a 60cm 8c lute is what everyone should have first, before they branch out into other types. As has already been said, 6c lutes cover virtually the whole of the "renaissance" lute repertoire, so a 6c lute is an obvious first choice. If you really want to play all those difficult 7c pieces (Forlone Hope, etc.) you need 7 courses, not 8. A 7c lute can be OK for earlier music too, especially since there is evidence of 7c lutes going right back to the late 15th C. The style of the instrument and the barring/thicknessing might become issues, though. As has been said, there is not much music specifically for 8c - two big collections which come to mind are Reymann and Molinaro, and Terzi's second book. The main reason for having the extra course is surely to have both the F and D available all the time, but you pay a price in extra string tension, longer bridge, and greater "stiffness" in sound, especially on a small lute. 9c lutes have been almost overlooked in modern times, but were clearly very common around 1600. Francisque (1600), Besard (1603), Dowland (1604), Dd.9.33, Fuhrmann (1615), Margaret Board - it's a long list. 10c lutes have probably less repertoire than 9c, but maybe not if you include all the "transitional tunings" stuff which is mostly hidden away in manuscripts. Incidentally I wonder if Kapsberger actually wrote for a liuto attiorbato, as he uses an 11th course once and although the classic liuti attiorbati have 14 courses I'm sure they existed with less. If I remember correctly, Piccinini's only had 13 courses, with the 13th tuned to a high note to fill in missing chromatics. As for size of lute, the idea that lutes have to be "in G" still seems to have a real stranglehold (remember all this stuff about putting a capo on a guitar so it's at "lute pitch"?). We know lutes existed in a variety of sizes, and now that we have started to explore the bigger sizes we're beginning to learn that often bigger is better. Anything which is difficult on a 60cm lute is still difficult on a 67cm lute, but still possible. When I made a 76cm lute a while ago I discovered that I could play almost any solo music on it, and it sounded wonderful. My conclusion is that we should be much more flexible about what we consider normal. And don't get me on to the sizes of theorboes, ebony veneers, or unison vihuela stringing..... Best wishes, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
