Hello Everyone It's nice to see so much activity lately on the lute builder list. As a fairly geographically isolated luthier the internet is where I get a lot of my information.
WRT tools - no one so far has spoken about hide glue cookers/heaters. I would be interested in what everyone uses to keep their glue at a correct temperature while they are doing glue tasks. At the moment I usually prepare a small quantity of glue (just enough for the job) in a glass jar which I heat in a few centimeters of water in a rice cooker. This works OK as far as it goes but as the cooker does not have a thermostat occasionally I end up with overheated glue when I become absorbed in what I am doing. I'm torn between "gluing as a critical task" and "not spending money on unnecessary tools" I build mostly renaissance lutes and classical guitars and I agree with most of what has been said in this conversation. Drill press, band saw, small mechanics lathe (good for making ad hoc tools as well as pegs), draw full of hand planes (fore, jack, small bench plane, various angle block planes, bullnose/chisel [homemade], shoulder planes), chisels and gouges and plenty of good scrapers. Measuring stuff - good squares, good angle gauge, vernier, profile gauge etc. DUST EXTRACTOR. Look forward to your advice. Cheers Bill On 09/12/2007, Timothy Motz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi all, > Although I am not nearly in Rob's class as a builder, I too build in > a small workshop (9X9 feet) next to the laundry area in my basement. > I've accumulated power tools mainly for renovating my house, but they > are mostly benchtop sized. I have a cheap Taiwanese 14 inch bandsaw > that I bought used in the garage with a 3/4 inch blade on it for > resawing. It doesn't have a dust port on it, so it stays out in the > garage where the dust won't get on the clothes in the laundry area. > I built myself a thickness sander capable of handling soundboards up > to 15 inches wide. It too lives in the garage, as does a cheapie > Delta benchtop table saw. That doesn't get used much in lutherie, > but I found that blade stabilizers made a big difference in its > performance. The Taiwanese saw also started performing better once I > put a Timber Wolf blade on it. It now cuts much more efficiently; it > was like increasing the size of the motor. > > Indoors I have a 9 inch Delta bandsaw, a tabletop drill press and a > tabletop mini lathe that is sold for hobbyists making wooden pens. I > used to use it to make pegs, but I've found an Indian company that > sells them at a reasonable price. I may still make pegs for my own > lutes; I have certainly accumulated enough apple wood for that. I > have a Luthier's Friend that goes on the drill press; I use that for > thicknessing ribs and for a lot of other things. I usually prep the > soundboards out in the garage on the bigger thickness sander in > batches and work on the ribs on the Luthier's Friend in the basement > as I have time. There is an old radial arm saw in the basement that > I bought used for work on the house; it doesn't get used much in > lutherie, though. > > Like Rob, I look for old hand tools. I use a block plane that > belonged to my grandfather that passed to me when my father died. I > like to remember him when I use it. You can find nice planes in > "antique" stores for about $25 or $30 (but check the blades for deep > nicks). I have a nice fore plane that cost me $30 that I use all the > time. Many of the old hand tools were given up when power tool > equivalents became common for cabinetmakers and finish carpenters, so > the old ones go pretty cheap. You can make jigs and things like > shooting boards yourself as you need them. Good scrapers are a must; > the ones I can get in local hardware stores don't have hard enough > steel, so I buy from either Woodcraft or lutherie supply stores. I > broke down and bought a violin maker's thumb plane when I had to do > some remedial work to lower the action on a lute; it's also great for > shaving down bracing. I have a set of small mushroom-handled chisels > sold for woodblock printmakers which are perfect for fine work. > > If you are starting out, you can often get things done for you by the > lutherie supply houses. LMI will glue up a soundboard and thickness > sand it for you for a reasonable charge. The first lutes I built had > ribs made from thin wood from a hobby supply store. At 24 inches, it > was just barely long enough for a G lute. And you can get creative. > Rather than invest in a luthier's bending iron at first, I made a > bending form and used a steam iron to bend the wood to conform to the > form. Don't plan on using the steam iron for clothes again; I had an > old one. You can find old irons in thrift shops. > > If you have a Craig's List web page for your area, you can watch it > for used tools. Often people will sell an entire workshop of tools > that belonged to a deceased parent which they have no use for. The > tools might be 50 years old, but if they are in good condition and > the price is favorable, go for it. > > For sharpening I am quite iconoclastic; I use emery wet-dry sandpaper > on a marble tile. You can find grits up to 2000 in the auto repair > section of a DIY store; it's used between coats when repainting > cars. With a 2000 grit sandpaper you can get an edge so smooth it > looks like it was polished. Just put a little water on the tile and > put the paper on top of it; the paper will stick and once you wet the > sandpaper you can use it for sharpening. If the sandpaper loads up, > just toss it and get a new sheet. I also cheat and use a honing > guide. I didn't bother much with sharpening when I was younger and > doing home repair work, but once I got interested in lutherie I > realized what a difference it made. > > The power tools I would hate to do without are the little band saw > and the benchtop drill press. With those in your shop and some basic > hand tools, you can do almost anything needed in lutherie. I have > even resawed ribs with the little band saw, although it was a slow > process because it is very under-powered. If you are going to resaw > on one of these, get a Timberwolf blade. The benchtop lathe is handy > too, but as I said above, at first you can buy pegs made by others. > I splurged and got a duplicator attachment so my pegs are reasonably > uniform. > > You really don't want to go the New Yankee Workshop route and buy > thousands of dollars worth of tools just to see if you like > lutherie. Start small and modest and buy good quality tools as you > develop your skills and can foresee a continued need for them. > > If you go to Larry Brown's web site, you can see that he is working > out of a pleasant room in his basement, and he's made something like > 1200 instruments. So you don't need a big fancy shop to do quality > work. > > Tim > > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 3:06 PM, Rob Dorsey wrote: > > > Hi Dana and All, > > > > With all respect for Dana's woodworking skills, which must be vast > > to build > > pipe organs, I must disagree on the tools necessary to build lutes, > > even in > > some quantity. My shop is currently a corner of our basement and > > measures > > 10'x8'. The only power tools I use are, a Delta 14" band saw (for > > general > > sawing and re-sawing with a 1/2" wide blade), a table top drill > > press, a > > corded and cordless drill, a disk sander and a dremmel tool. The > > one other > > big power item is a Jet mini wood lathe for pegs. Everything else > > is done > > with hand tools. I prefer to get my chisels from eBay since I can find > > vintage socket chisels which make it easy to replace the handles. I > > sharpen > > with Japanese water stones. I have a collection of small planes, > > several of > > which I made for a specific task such as cutting the shelf for a > > binding on > > a lute top. My most expensive hand tools are a couple from Lie > > Nielsen, a > > small scraper plane and a low angle smoothing plane. Otherwise it's > > Stanley > > all the way. > > > > I built me first lute on a drafting table in my apartment in > > Portland. While > > I did some of the work at Bob Lundeberg's shop I did most of it at > > home, > > even carving the mould, making huge mess. > > > > It's not so much the amount of equipment you can gather that makes > > the lute. > > It's having the fire in your belly to do it and the guts to get > > about it. > > > > Best, > > Rob Dorsey > > http://RobDorsey.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 1:57 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Lute construction > > > > > > Sorry all, I should have waited to reply, my previous posting was > > incomplete > > because of time constraints. > > > > To build from plans and use wood bought from commercial sources > > (rather than > > as a kit) you will want access to a general woodworking shop - > > resawing > > bandsaw, ordinary bandsaw, table saw, jointer, planer. Many large > > cities > > have woodworking clubs. I build pipe organs for a living, and have > > permission to use the shops tools for small home projects (I pay > > rent when > > doing work for sale). Sometimes you can find a medium or small size > > cabinet/millwork shop that resells excess wood and does small-scale > > millwork > > for a reasonable fee, or one that allows employees to earn tips for > > small > > amounts of ad-hoc millwork on provided wood. Do you and the shop > > the favor > > of providing a sketch showing precisely what you want done; also, > > be careful > > not to impose, friday at closing is not the best time, tho a half hour > > earlier may have been ideal. > > > > For soundboard tuning you want cabinet scrapers and small planes, > > spokeshaves, and gouges, look to the ample violin making literature > > for > > details on use. > > > > Sharpening equipment for all your tools, and a reference book for > > sharpening > > angles (in metals) which you will augment for the woods you use. A > > plate of > > glass plus wet/dry paper (scary-sharp system), traditional european > > oil > > stones, traditional japanese water stones, each of these systems > > has some > > advantage, and there are machines one can invest in to help with > > precision > > and speed. Dont assume any tool fresh from the store is ready for > > use, > > plane soles are ground flat, but may have sprung, and usually are > > only sorta > > flat; frogs need adjustment if not reshaping; irons and cap irons need > > resharpening and honeing, then bedding. > > > > The proper cutting angle for a chisel/gouge varys according to the > > nature of > > the wood to be worked. Woods with diffuse small pores can tolerate a > > stronger angled edge which will last longer (Maple, Apple..) > > Softer woods > > with larger pores (diffuse or not) will be more air than cellulose > > and need > > a more acute cutting angle which is more fragile (pine, spruce..). > > Woods which are hard in places but also have rings of large pores > > (Jatoba, > > Oak, Ash) are a compromise, some cuts will need one tool, others a > > different > > one. Ideally you should have double sets of tools, but that is > > costly. > > Sometimes you must work with a tool not ideal but which will do the > > job with > > care. > > > > Manufacturors will give you a compromise angle which may not suit > > the work > > you intend. > > > > Minimal kit is a concept that is difficult to establish, so much > > depends on > > personal preference. Plan to spend time at yard and estate sales, > > tools are > > not always present, but when they are its often a good buy if only > > for the > > steel. Careful with complex pieces like a plain, often the sole > > will be > > worn out or split (wooden body), perhaps the iron is not original > > and wrong, > > perhaps a steeltipped iron has been oversharpened, perhaps a steel- > > bodied > > plane is warped, dented, or badly rusted beyond redemption. Still, > > old > > Stanleys, Records, and Baileys are worth $15-20 for you to > > experiment on > > tuning the plane up. Wooden bodied planes are easy to fabricate, > > if you > > have a usable iron, so even if the iron was wrong for the plane you > > have, > > you can make something to use that iron. > > > > A forge with anvils hammers and tongs is the ultimate tool, > > assuming you > > have a country place, tolerant neighbors and firecode. Most > > carvers with > > serious collections of tools at least make the handles, if not the > > blades. > > Used to be a store on 18th st in NYC that sold unhandled swiss > > tools (a > > Sculpting school was nearby), I hope someone still does that retail, > > hopefully online. > > > > Oh, some of the items used by jewlers are useful - gravers, jewlers > > saw > > blades, reamers, needle files (in grades, #2 has alternatives, #0, > > #4 for > > example). > > > > A lifetime of various hobbies has built my tool collection, last > > time I > > moved it filled my car, leaving just a small amount of room for the > > driver > > (no lunch, no room to consult a map, luckily the car was towed > > behind a full > > rented truck). Dont know how I will move next time, I have of > > course added > > to the collection, including a south bend lathe. > > > > Oh, Yes, you need some way to make pegs. You dont need a lathe for > > that, > > you can carve the heads and shave the tapered shanks, but, lathe- > > turned > > heads are prefereable. > > > > Dont worry about the size of your tool chest, plan on having > > several of > > them. > > -- > > Dana Emery > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > --
