Dear Anthony,

Thank you for the additional information.  The biting episode
was first published (to my knowledge) in a letter to the editor
from James Alsop in the _*Journal; of the American Musicological
Society*_ (1979): 367. Alsop refers to the lutenist as James
Gaultier, and in my comments I should probably have changed it to
Jacques Gaultier. The Gaultiers are really a mess because there
are so many of them, and so many variant spellings of their
names.  When you go
looking for them in an unedited source you need to use each
different spelling to get full results.  Apparently he used the
name James Gawltier in
England.  But should we use Jacques when refering to his work in
France, and James. in England?  That would create unnecessary
confusion, imo.  Certainly in formal writing one needs to be
"squeamish."<g>

How does one determine the standard spelling?  I would use the
Name Authority files at the Library of Congress.  The files are
used mainly by library cataloguers in order to determine the main
spelling to use in a catalogue.  So "Gaultier, Jacques" might be
the main entry under which all books by him are listed, and forms
of
the name like Gautier, Gawltier or Gottier would appear in the
catalogue with a "see" reference, e.g., Gottier, _see_ Gaultier.
=====AJN (Boston, Mass.)=====

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Edward Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[email protected]>; "Arthur Ness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:53 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lutanist mayhem (was) Re: Etymology


| Ed and Arthur
| This story was told in an interesting article by  Janet
Snowman, in
| December 2006, APOL LO Academy Pictures On-Line, Robert Spencer
| http://tinyurl.com/239h99
| << in 1643 a London surgeon's casebook describe `Mr Ashberrie
(a
| lutanist) at night was bitten by Gottier, the French Luteniste
in
| Covent Garden, had a piece of his cheek bitten out, an inch or
more
| down to the lower jaw. I stiched it and dressed it'.
|
| Of course this was English Gautier*, but whether one should
anglicize
| his name from Jacques to James Gautier, I am not sure (although
the
| name Gautier  itself, had varied spellings, so I suppose we
should
| not be too squeamish : << There were a number of French
lutenists
| named Gauthier, also spelt Gautier, Gaultier, Gothier, Goutie,
| Gautie, Gwaltier, Cautier and Haultier [cf. New Grove]. >>).
| John H Robinson, Newcastle University, April 1997
http://tinyurl.com/24cwt2
|
| This makes it very difficult to look up Gautier with Google.
You do
| have to put in most of those variants if you want to find all
the
| relevant texts.
| (* jean-Marie's mention of the gutar works of Irish Gallot,
shows
| that this form of "nationalization" is not specific to
England).
|
| Standardization of spelling and also of dictionary entrances
must
| have been progressively standardized; and without the presence
of
| spellcheckers and onboard dictionaries would soon return to
their
| random nature. So these variant forms for Lutist should perhaps
be
| looked at in the same light. Note that in French, the word
luthier
| (lit. lutemaker) has been generalized to include makers of all
| stringed instruments.
|
|  There may well be extenuating circumstances for Gautier's
biting
| episode (although he was previously wanted for murder in
France,
| probably because Cardinal Richelieu had banned dueling, in 20
years
| about 7000 deaths had been caused by this gentle art). Let us
not
| forget that in spite of being known as English Gautier, This
French
| English Gautier was one of the French English Queen's* group of
| French Catholic musicians, at the height of the English
revolution
| (1643) when it could not have been too good in England to be
both
| French and Catholic. Most of the French musicians had escaped
through
| Holland and back to France, so what Jacques was doing here I am
not
| sure. (William Lawes was actually shot and killed at the siege
of
| Chester in the company of King Charles 1 in 1645).
|
| To be fair to Jacques Gaultier (and to lutists in general), the
cheek-
| biting episode (mentioned above) would have  occurred around
the same
| time, the following anecdote is told of the musicians and
composers
| John Wilson, Harry and Will Lawes, in the manuscript of Jests
and
| Stories by Sir Nicholas L'Estrange, which describes one of
their
| nightly visitations to the local public house:
|
| They "were at a Taverne one night; Wilson being in the worst
case of
| the three, swore he would Quarrel with the next Man he met, who
was a
| meere stranger and a sober gentleman; whome he thus accosted;
are not
| you a Catholicke? Yes marry I am; Then ya're a Knave says he;
the
| Gentlman having passed a little way, stepps backe to him; and
bids
| him not to swallow an Error, for says he, I am no Catholicke:
why
| then ya're a scurvy Lying Knave sayes Wilson. Upon that out
flew
| their swords, but the Lawes parted them presently".
|   http://www.canterburygreenman.fsnet.co.uk/WilliamLawes.htm
|
| *Queen Henrietta Maria wife of Charles the 1st, was a Catholic,
but
| daughter of Henry the IVth of France and Navarre, who had been
| himself a Protestant, almost murdered in the St. Bartholomeu's
Day
| Massacre. To take the French throne he became an official
Catholic,
| reportedly saying "Paris is well worth a mass"; however, he was
| finally murdered by the Catholic monk Fran=E7ois Ravillac for
being too
| soft on protestants.
|
| Difficult and confusing times. When was life ever simple?
| Regards
| Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
| Le 5 mars 08 =E0 01:11, Edward Martin a ecrit :
|
| > Thanks for the interesting story, Art!
| >
| > ed
| >
| > At 10:22 AM 3/4/2008 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote:
| >> There was a time when "lutanist" seems to have been the
accepted
| >> spelling, although it makes me wince every time I see it.
It was
| >> a spelling that appeared in very respectable publications
(NY
| >> Times, Musical Times, Donna Curry).  Perhaps lasting into
the
| >> 1950s and 60s.  I saw the spelling used as late as 1975 in
_Early
| >> Music_  and JAMS.  In fact, while looking this morning, I
came
| >> across the spelling in regard to some lutanist mayhem as
| >> described in a 17th century medical casebook quoted in _JAMS
32
| >> (1975): 367:
| >>
| >>>> Mr. Ashberrie (a lutanist) at night was bitten by Gottier,
| >> the French Luteniste in Covent Garden, had a piece of his
cheek
| >> bitten out, an inch or more, on the left side at corner of
the
| >> mouth & neither [i.e. nether] lip, down to the lower part of
the
| >> jaw. I stiched it and dressed it.<<
| >>
| >> This is a reference to James Gautier, lutenist to James I
and
| >> Charles I, who fled France in 1617 to escape the
consequences of
| >> a duel.  It seems like an exceptionally large number of
lutenists
| >> were engaged in violence.  Coming immediately to mind are S.
L.
| >> Weiss and Gian Maria
| >> Alemani (you don't want to read the description of what he
did to
| >> some poor soul in Florence).
| >> =====AJN (Boston, Mass.)=====
| >> *  Free Download of the Week from Classical Music Library:
| >>
| >> For this week's free download from Classical Music Library
go to
| >> my web page
| >> and click on Alexander Street Press link:
| >>
| >> http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/
| >>
| >> *Vaughan Williams'_ Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis___*
| >> performed by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra; Christopher
| >> Seaman, conductor. More
| >> information about this piece is available on our  music blog
| >> <http://alexanderstreet.typepad.com/music>.
| >>
| >> For some free scores, go to:
| >> http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/
| >> ===================================
| >>
| >> ----- Original Message -----
| >> From: "Tony Chalkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >> To: <[email protected]>; "G. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:20 AM
| >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Etymology
| >>
| >>
| >> | Lutenist and lute-player are fine by me.  "Luthiste" is
French,
| >> and Lutanist
| >> | is just bad spelling, I think.
| >> |
| >> | tony
| >> | ----- Original Message -----
| >> | From: "G. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >> | To: <[email protected]>
| >> | Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:43 PM
| >> | Subject: [LUTE] Etymology
| >> |
| >> |
| >> | >I small question.
| >> | >
| >> | > To describe a person playing the lute, I've come across:
| >> | >
| >> | > Lutenist
| >> | > Lutist
| >> | > Lutanist
| >> | > Lute-player
| >> | >
| >> | > Which is (are) the correct one (s)? All of them?
| >> | >
| >> | > G.
| >> | >
| >> | >
| >> | >
| >> | > To get on or off this list see list information at
| >> | > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
| >> | >
| >> |
| >> |
| >> |
| >> |
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >> --
| >> No virus found in this incoming message.
| >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
| >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1309 - Release
Date:
| >> 3/3/2008
| >> 6:50 PM
| >
| >
| >
| > Edward Martin
| > 2817 East 2nd Street
| > Duluth, Minnesota  55812
| > e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| > voice:  (218) 728-1202
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| --
|



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