Hi, again,
I just took the time to read this through, and I had a similar experience to
Rob's in Turkey when I played with traditional Cambodian musicians here in
America, though there was no score and the variations and ornamentations (as we
would call them) on the basic tune (as we would call it) tended to be dictated
by the particularities of the instrument as well as the propensities of the
performer. In short, each person would play the tune as he (always he, in my
experience, except for singing), knew and heard it and as it fit on his
instrument. The metaphor they used was of
In some cases, these versions were different enough that we would think of them
as "parts", but they made no such distinction that I could find out, although
in one case my teacher, hearing me imitate on note for note the tune he was
playing on his two-string fiddle ("tro"), stopped and taught me a different
version of that phrase that fit better on the lower range of my mandolin.
A quick note: initially I felt strange playing Cambodian music on the
mandolin, but found it that it's been a Cambodian instrument about as long as
it's been an American one. French colonials apparently brought them in around
1900, only a decade or so after Italian immigrants brought them to America.
Sorry for the diversion,
Chris.
>>> "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4/30/2008 10:56 am >>>
Dear Ron,
I'd like to thank you, in turn, for your thoughtful reply. If I take issue
with one or two points, it is nothing personal - I'm just thinking out loud.
1. How can you say that you 'can state this without reservation' that
'everyone in the sixteenth century who was fortunate enough to lay hands on
a lute was first taught to sing'? Everyone? But I'm being picky. You
probably mean 'most people'? Impossible to know for sure.
2. The important part of your useful Zarlino quotation, for me at least, was
'progressions absolutely intolerable in composition'. This clearly divides
the matter into two seemingly polar camps: Performance Practice and
Compositional Practice. I guess Zarlino was a composer?!
3. Your phrase, 'Personally, I think this fantasia has its own calm, quiet
integrity and really does not need finger ornaments to tart it up.' I find
interesting. I have never saught to 'tart up' a composition by using
ornaments. Nothing could be further from my mind. The term 'finger
ornaments' is also interesting.
4. I'm not sure of your contention that a 'full, round, warm tone' would a)
cloud the polyphony, and b) is not possible (your implication?) on a lute.
Anyway, your stance is a common one today, and might well have been common
in the 16thC, which is not to denigrate it in any way. I played Fuenllana
fantasias without decoration because they just didn't seem to move me to do
so. So I am not contra anything you say, but I do feel that the relationship
between ornamentation and phrasing is one that is little discussed, either
historically or today, possibly because it is difficult to put into words.
Coming from a different angle...I spent some time in Istanbul studying with
the State Orchestra - traditional Turkish classical music, one might say.
Everyone had the same score, treble clef, but they all decorated it in their
own way. 20 people doing the same thing differently. And it worked
beautifully, although it took me over a month to really start appreciating
it.
There is also the belief by many scholars that larger-scale part music,
ten-part masses, for instance, were a product of the tradition of vocal
improvising. The style still exisits in some west coast islands in Scotland,
and elsewhere in the world. Some might say it sounds cacophanous, some say
it sounds beautiful. I tried it with ten of my students: I got them to sing
the first line of the Lord's Prayer starting on a C and finding their way to
a G. After a few terrible attempts, they started listening to each other,
and it started to sound very convincing.
The point is, singers DID improvise in the 16thC, and there is a long
tradition before and after that century of improvising florid lines, away
from the written score. I'm just wondering out loud if we shouldn't do
something similar?
Rob
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