Mimmo Peruffo told me he had measured the thickness of some Torres
tops and they were both incredibly thin and excessively hard.
It was very hard to bend them, although the barring was not different
from modern instruments. I think he feels they must have had some
chemical treatment, as they were also dark in colour. I suppose they
might have come from a stock of wood that had been chemically treated
for infestation, or this could have occurred accidentally; although
Mimmo discovered 18th century recipes for treating wood chemically so
as to obtain such hardness.
However, one gamba instrument I know, coming from China, was made out
of excessively old wood from old buildings that were destroyed while
building new roads. It has an exceptional sound for the price, and
the soundboard looks quite remarkable with superb bearclawing (I seem
to remember that the Rauwolf barring was restored using some very old
wood from the restoration of a building in Venice); I suppose very
ancient wood that has completely dried out, could also take on these
qualities.
Regards
Anthony
PS I believe climate also plays a role in achieving tight grain (what
ever the wood). Thus Yew wood for bows generally came from Spain, and
not England, as the grain in English was less tight (too much climate
variation, not enough regularity). Perhaps the Picea abies of the
past grew in more ideal climatic conditions, and also the stocks
might have been better strored and for longer periods; so that the
wood we have today might not be at all close to what existed at the
height of lute-making. In which case there would seem no reason not
to use Adirondack, if that is closer in quality to the wood that was
available at the time (chemical treatment, or liberal use of Linseed
oil, as Martyn Hodgson mentionned, could be another solution).
Le 2 oct. 09 à 17:54, Eugene C. Braig IV a écrit :
There is a very decided break between the pre-Segovia and post-Segovia
guitar. After, most guitars were built to a very Spanish, post-Torres
tradition. That involved European spruce (Picea abies) and, later,
western
red cedar (Thuja plicata) and, later still, Engelmann spruce (P.
engelmannii). There are modern classical guitar builders out there
to have
used red spruce (P. rubens), but not on anything like a mass-
production
scale any more, and I'm not certain I've ever handled one. My own
wedding-gig workhorse guitar is topped in Engelmann spruce.
However, from the pre-Segovia "classical" tradition, original 19th-
c. C.F.
Martin & Co. guitars were built for a romantic-era repertoire and gut
strings, and many used red/Adirondack spruce as did several other
American
makes. I like them, and they aren't that uncommon. You should
check one
out if you find the opportunity, and especially if you find one
with an
owner who keeps it in gut and silver-wound silk.
Best,
Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Martin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:26 AM
To: Eugene C. Braig IV; ' Mathias Rösel '; 'Edward Martin'
Cc: 'Lutelist'
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
Out of curiosity, how does Adirondack (picea
rubens) stack up for nylon strung guitars?
ed
At 09:03 AM 10/2/2009, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
As I suspect you know, Mathias (and Ed), red spruce (Picea
rubens) has
been
a prized tonewood in the American guitar and mandolin industry
from the
19th
c. on.
Getting a little discussion at the vihuela list is my newly rebuilt
vihuela,
now topped in Lutz spruce (Picea x lutzii), which actually is a
hybrid
between sitka (P. sitchensis) and white (P. glauca) spruces. I
am quite
pleased with the result.
More popular North American spruces as tonewoods have been sitka on
metal-strung instruments and Engelmann (P. engelmannii) on gut-/
nylon-
strung
ones.
Best,
Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:lute-
[email protected]] On
Behalf Of "Mathias Rösel"
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 5:29 AM
To: Edward Martin
Cc: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
"Edward Martin" <[email protected]> schrieb:
Yes, good wood is not cheap. You mentioned
spruce... I received my 11-course lute a week
ago! It had an accident, and the belly had been
destroyed. So, Dan Larson put a new top on it.
It is spruce from New England, known as
Adirondack spruce, or red spruce, or Appalacian
spruce. I have never heard of Adirondack used on a lute, prior to
this
one.
The results are beautiful! The treble is incredibly clear,
singing.
Yes, I read the thread with great interest. Also,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picea_rubens and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonewood#Topwoods_.28soundboard.29
have
it
that picea rubens is an excellent tonewood for soundboards.
European
luthiers don't use it as far as I'm aware, and I won't make it over
the
pond,unfortunately, in the near future so as to listen to your
playing.
Mathias
At 07:45 PM 10/1/2009, Mathias Rösel wrote:
Yew for bowls e. g. is quite expensive in Old Europe as it was
almost
extinguished when yew was required for military bows. Good spruce
is
rare and not exactly cheap. Ebony for necks and fretboards
still is
exotic woods, rare and expensive, if I'm not mistaken. So, a good
HIP
lute cannot be cheap. But lutes still are cheap, compared to
celli.
My farthing FWIW
Mathias
"Jaros³aw Lipski" <[email protected]> schrieb:
Well, it may be possible that some people
will buy such a lute, but we have
to ask what is the reason for doing so. The
lute is not only a device. I can
only quote Ernst Gottlieb Baron (1727) who says in his "Study of
the
lute":
"I once saw at Herr Hoffman's in Leipzig an old lute of solid
copper,
heavily gilded on the back with many figures
etched upon it, and the top was
of black ebony. But when I examined the tone, I found that this
instrument
sounded more like an old pot than a true lute. Whoever wishes to
have a
good-sounding instrument will choose good and appropriate wood."
Best
Jaroslaw Lipski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mustafa Umut Sarac" <[email protected]>
To: "howard posner" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: : Cost of a lute?
There are some people wastes 50 years to create their art
designs
cheapest , no need to cnc lathes and enviromentally
friendly.
I gave my 25 years to studying this kind of stuff.
If you look to Luigi Colani , he creates whatever he wants
with
hot
wire cut foam.
I think this is the cheapest , fastest , less complex , and
using least
electric technology.
And no noise for home studios in the apartments
Only you have to do is to create a moving hot wire inside
foam.
Than you fill the cut foam with polyester slowly , and seal
the
foam.
There would be no nasty fume.
You can fill the very thin foam cut with a syringe very
slowly.
I asked to produce a guitar with rapid production , rapid
prototyping
methods and it costs 3000 dollars without a neck . This is
not
intelligent.
Hot wire FOAM CUT is the best
How you will produce the back , one by one and assembling
the
foams
together precisely and fill with epoxy.
I am seriously thinking to produce Lutes with this
technology.
You can produce carbon composites with adding graphite
carbon
powder in
to the polymer !
It is like using saw and a wood.
Best ,
Mustafa Umut Sarac
Istanbul
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Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
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e-mail: [email protected]
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--
Viele Grüße
Mathias Rösel
http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com
http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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- Release Date: 10/01/09 18:23:00
Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota 55812
e-mail: [email protected]
voice: (218) 728-1202
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
http://www.myspace.com/edslute
