OK, it has finally come to this ;-) First, check out this modern abomination of many guitars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ARQsw4ml8g (Note that one puny bongo drum, played lightly by an inexpert player, can easily cover up the sound of 50+ classical guitars.) Then there's this example of a steel string guitar in classical music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-q7zTX7LE (The guitar is tuned high to low: E-C-F#-D-G-C.) How would a lute do? Chris --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Christopher Stetson <cstet...@smith.edu> wrote: > From: Christopher Stetson <cstet...@smith.edu> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 5:24 PM > Hi, all. > > Clearly now is the time to put this out > to the list: > > [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6wcIOSC-u0 > > That's me on the right in the > (unamplified) classical guitar trio. You > can see my pinkie creepin' down to the > soundboard. I played electric > with pick for most of the concert. > It was fun. > > But don't get on me about Peter's > "archguitar." You'll have to talk to > him about that. > > Best, > > Chris. > >>> <chriswi...@yahoo.com> > 12/20/2009 10:54 AM >>> > Mark, > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, terli...@aol.com > <terli...@aol.com> > wrote: > > From: terli...@aol.com > <terli...@aol.com> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, > 9:30 AM > > > > > > I write at the risk of being gummed > to death by a horde of > > irate lutenists: > > > Nope. I'm not anti-classical guitar > at all. I consider myself a > musician who chooses the right tool for > the job. Much as I love > theorbo or baroque lute, there's lots of > music for which these > instruments are totally unsuitable. > Same with guitar. > > > > I don't know what kind of guitars > and guitar playing > > lutenists here have been exposed to > here but there is a wide > > variety of types of guitars and > playing styles. > > > I totally agree! As mentioned in my > last message, I believe classical > players should even expand their horizons > to include steel-string and > electric guitars in a classical > context. Nice as the nylon guitar is, > this is such an easy way to extend the > dynamic and tonal range of the > guitar to nearly orchestral proportions. > I have a master's degree in classical > guitar from highly regarded > conservatory. My main area of > emphasis was on contemporary music. > I've written a lot of music for it and > continue to write for it. > Nowadays I only compose solo music for > the nylon-string guitar for the > reasons outlined in my last message: a > modern guitar is built for the > purpose of bringing forth a full, rich > sonic spectrum. Nice. However, > much of this charm gets lost when other > instruments with greater > emphasis on higher partials are > employed. So why use it in chamber > music when other types of guitars exist > which do bring out the higher > partials? > > Hauser style > > guitar guitars are very good for > playing some lute music. > > Smallman type guitars are less good > for playing most lute > > music. To play lute music decently > on guitar takes a certain > > touch...there are players that can > do it. > True. I have no problem with > guitarists playing lute music, but I'm > not very interested in doing it myself > for the same reason I don't play > Villa-Lobos on my 13-course. At the > same time folks should keep in > mind that the nylon-string classical > guitar as we know it only came > into being circa 1950. > > The guitar (unamplified) works great > great in ensemble > > playing e.g Boulez: Le marteau sans > maitre: Webern op.18, > > Takemitsu: Ring for Lute,flute and > guitar.. > I haven't really found so. Even in > something like Takemitsu's "Toward > the Sea" the guitar is outshined by the > delicate alto flute. The soft > alto flute tosses off these gentle waves > of sound while us poor > guitarists are fighting to slam out every > note. I've seen these works > performed with amplified guitars but > things always sound so boomy to > me. > Already with Webern we may ask ourselves > what exactly the appropriate > instrument really is. The > Stauffer-style type of guitar construction > remained current in Austria well into the > 1920's. Certainly the > heavily-built nylon string instrument is > out! I would love to research > the status of the guitar in early > 20th-century Vienna. There's a new > idea: Second Viennese Performance > Practice! > > Best, > > Mark Delpriora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; > > Sauvage Valery <sauvag...@orange.fr> > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 6:18 pm > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > Valery, > > > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Sauvage Valery > <sauvag...@orange.fr> > > wrote: > > > Ok forte, > > > we can hear it, but sounds like > a guitar (single > > strung for > > > the one he used). > > > So why not play the guitar ? > modern and loud > > instrument you > > > can play with nails... > > > > Really? I've found the modern > classical guitar to be > > a really, really awful > > ensemble instrument when dealing > with anything else other > > than other classical > > guitars or one other > instrument/voice. While the > > signal coming from it may be > > technically louder than most types > of lutes, it is designed > > to emphasize the > > lower partials so that the sound is > literally swallowed up > > by other modern > > instruments. This sort of dark > timbre can be very > > effective for a certain > > portion (but not all) of the solo > repertoire, but it really > > loses its charm in > > other situations. This is why > A) it MUST be played > > with nails B) even then it > > doesn't project particularly well > and C) you often hear the > > instrument amplified > > in even small ensembles. > > > > If you're going to amplify it, > what's the point of using > > that type of guitar > > (unless you want to make the > amplification part of the > > effect and timbre itself, > > a la George Crumb)? This is > why I haven't used a > > classical guitar in any of my > > ensemble music for years. A > steel-string guitar works > > very well unamplified in > > a small ensemble and the electric > guitar has no volume > > limitations at all. > > Contemporary composers would find > much of interest in these > > instruments and > > modern classical guitarists would be > well advised to think > > of them as alternate > > versions of their instrument. > Unfortunately, classical > > players often perceive > > them as some kind of threat from > outside the "official" > > guitar world. > > > > I haven't found this same problem > with lutes or > > theorbos. The emphasis of > > higher partials means that the sound > on both can cut > > through quite well. Play > > close to the bridge and you can be > heard most of the > > time. I've been thinking > > of writing a duo for lute and modern > guitar. Maybe > > now's the time to > > investigate the project. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wolfgang wiehe" > > <wie-w...@gmx.de> > > > To: <terli...@aol.com>; > > > <r.turov...@verizon.net>; > > > <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 19, > 2009 8:05 PM > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > > > > > > I heard a "liuto forte" this > year at our DLG meeting > > on > > > "Burg > > > Sternberg". Hmm, not louder > than my g-lute...;-) > > > Greetings > > > W. > > > > > > -----Urspruengliche > Nachricht----- > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > > > Im > > > Auftrag von terli...@aol.com > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Dezember > 2009 19:41 > > > An: r.turov...@verizon.net; > > > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > > > OR suitable for a guitarist who > is NOT sick of the > > guitar > > > repertoire! > > > . and is happy with finger > nails. > > > > > > > > > Roman, Did you go to the the > demonstration of the > > liuto > > > forte hat > > > occurred at the Met Museum a > year or 3 ago? > > > > > > > > > I missed it. > > > > > > > > > Mark Delpriora > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> > > > To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:51 > am > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > > > It is a single-strung lute and > guitar hybrid designed > > by > > > Andre Burguete, > > > that aproximates lute sound > while purporting to have > > the > > > volume of the > > > guitar. It uses nylon overspun > with fine steel wire, > > and > > > has some > > > interesting and useful > peculiarities in the bridge > > and > > > soundboard > > > construction. > > > Fixed metal frets are > supposedly less dampening to > > the > > > sound > > > (negligibly). > > > This technology might yield a > nice and loud theorbo in > > ET. > > > But one really misses the > overtone palette of double > > > strings. > > > It is a very suitable > instrument for a guitarist who > > is > > > sick of the > > > guitar repertoire, but is > unwilling to part with his > > > nails. > > > > > > [2]http://www.liuto-forte.com/ > > > There are a number of notable > converts to it: Oliver > > > Holzenburg, Luciano > > > Contini et al. > > > RT > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Winheld" > > > <dwinh...@comcast.net> > > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 19, > 2009 11:31 AM > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > Alright, I'll bite- > What in God's name is > > Liuto > > > Forte? (I must have > > > > been out of the office for > this one) > > > > thanks, Dan > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list > see list information > > at > > > > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list > information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6wcIOSC-u0 > 2. http://www.liuto/ > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
