Hello Anthony,
It's so nice to hear you again! Unfortunately I have computer related
problems as well. Instead of certain fonts the small box with letters inside
appears on some sites. Do I lack some fonts in my laptop?
Anyway, back to Oud players. I think their world is in close relation to
ours, so we can draw some paralels. We have to remember that the lute was
intruduced to Europe during Moorish invasion (at least some wise man believe
this), so in a way our lute is a descendant of Oud. Their tradition is
unbroken since mediaeval times or even earlier. I can even risk saying that
their tradition is even more stable then European in XVII or XVIII c. We
can see how desperately people were looking for new solutions. How they were
experimenting with new constructions of their instruments to suit new
demands of the music. They lost the battle so this is why we can't see what
would they invent later (maybe it's good we can not), but in general we
can't assume that in Europe the lute players would be more traditional then
in Arab countries.
I have heard many Oud players. Some of them are very traditional, other
introduce new techniques, but in general they are very competent. The taste
is a different matter, but...de gustibus non est disputandum.
In general, hadn't our lute tradition been broken, we wouldn't have the gut
dispute anymore. But it's good we have! We have the choice. Choices are
interesting. We don't need to pretend we are the old ones. We won't be HIP
ever, but it doesn't mean we don't wish to unveil the real details of the
art of lute playing.
I absolutelly agree with Danny that from time to time we can hear some very
unispiring so called HIP performances which one wouldn't like to hear again.
On the other hand I have heard some fantastic recitals on syntethics. So in
general I don't assess performance by the string or lute model selection.
I always say, one has to try, try and try and then decide what sounds best.
All the best
Jaroslaw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Hind" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:59 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tr :Re: Switching between gut strings and synthetics?
I have had problems with loss of paragraph and line breaks, which have
quite put me off messaging, so I will try using a AS: symbol to
indicate paragraph break, and see if that works.
Hello Jaroslaw
Last year, I went to a poetry reading which was accompanied
with oud, at l'Institut du Monde Arabe, here in Paris, and before the
readings began, the Oud player came on stage and began warming up. His
playing seemed so subtle, and the Oud really beautiful (a sort of
largish Venere style). Of course I could not say what his stringing
was, but probably synthetics.
Then he called in some technician, who set up a microphone, and the
sound changed to electrified Oud, all the delicacy and tracery was
gone. He called the technician back a few times, and I hoped he was
going to have it switched off, or at leat turned down, but he had it
turned up.
The poetry was interesting, but also expressed very loudly, with a very
strong romantic effect. The lute intervals were such a disappointment,
not from the playing, but from its complete loss of the delicacy I had
heard at the beginning; but clearly no one on stage, or off, had any
problem with it, except myself.
AS:
Who am I to tell Oud players what they should or shouldn't do from a
musical point of view, but I would certainly not base any argument on
what we should do, from what they are doing at present.
On the other hand, I would gladly receive lessons from this skillfull
performer; as you say the speed and flow of his playing was
magnificient, and there was nothing flashy or showy in his playing,
like some modern guitarists tend to do. He was very much there to serve
the music and the poetry; but for me this was severely flawed by the
brash microphone sound.
AS:
Regards
Anthony
AS:
__________________________________________________________________
De : "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
A : Anthony-Hind <[email protected]>
EnvoyA(c) le : Sam 30 Janvier 2010, 0 h 57 min 00 s
Objet : Tr :[LUTE] Re: Switching between gut strings and synthetics?
---- Message d'origine ----
>De : "JarosAAaw Lipski" <[email protected]>
>A : [email protected]
>Objet : [LUTE] Re: Switching between gut strings and synthetics?
>Date : 29/01/2010 19:58:55 CET
>
>Whether your string is made of gut or syntetic it has nothing to do
with
> tempo one can play. Each material demands different attitude when
playing
> (and our contemporary big stars of the lute world are the real proof
of
> this). Bach won't sound better or be played faster on gut because
Bach
> didn't write idiomaticly for this instrument and many of his pieces
can be
> played on any instrument. I am neither fan of syntetics nor guts. All
of
> them have their problems and good sides. Some will sound better in
some
> situations, some in others....but I am sure that at least some of the
"old
> guys" would use syntetics or wired strings. It's a matter of taste
and
> practicality too (if one has to think about concert situation). BTW,
I
> wonder why Arab Oud players don't use gut anymore (and they are
faster then
>
> ever!). Don't they like traditional gut tone? I always thought they
are very
>
> traditional......
> Best
>
> Jaroslaw
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Winheld" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:46 PM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Switching between gut strings and synthetics?
>
>
> > Anton,
> > Great perspective- my 13 course B-lute is indeed almost all gut
(some
> > low fundamental compromises, solid silver wound La Bella guitar
> > strings- two "d's" and one A for fundamentals on C-11, B-12, and
> > A-13). I follow Toyohiko Satoh's low tension specs. While not a
> > "virtuoso" on Baroque lute, I don't find the tension any hindrance
at
> > all to any tempi I might launch into. My viel ton instruments are
at
> > slightly higher tensions- about midway Satoh's specs and the
tension
> > charts like, say, Dan Larson's- no matter gut or synthetics- no
> > hindrance at all to tempo, and I think the lower tension makes
> > ornamentation a bit more forgiving on the synthetics.
> > Dan
> >
> > Speaking of tempi, have you heard the Ensemble 415's Opus 6
Corelli?
> >
> >>What I can say is - my experience is only Baroque lute.
> >>Gut strings are very stiff and it makes it possible to manage
> >>certain things on low tension around 2,2 - 2,5 kilos which would
> >>never be possible on nylon. Therefore many people play very low
> >>tensioned lutes, saying this sounds better. I think as for the tone
> >>itself it does sound a bit better but important is to be able to
> >>express oneself ad here the problem comes. I never heard anyone to
> >>perform a Weiss from Dresden let us say F sharpMinor n 23 or G
minor
> >>nr 30 or any piece of this scale with trebles having low tension. I
> >>am also talking about real tempo.
> >>I do think that Presto is FAST! and not a baroque word which means
> >>expression etc. Weiss met Corelly and people were well aware of
real
> >>virtuoso music. So my point is the lute is just an instrument as
any
> >>other. It has to be playable, tempos fast and it must be in tune.
> >>My wife Anna and concentrate on Bach and Weiss mostly pieces that
> >>are very technically demanding and there is absolutely no way to
> >>push them to the right limit on the slopy stringing.
> >>I do think that gut enables you to articulate better and when
needed
> >>play faster and indeed produce better contrasts. The lute with gut
> >>is just a different instrument. Very different... It feels
correct:)
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
>
>
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
