Oliver, You'll see I've copied this reply to Wayne cripp's lute list. If I recall right from when I joined, you simply send an email to it with the word subscribe.
Someone will put me right if this is wrong! regards Martyn --- On Thu, 1/4/10, Oliver Webber <[email protected]> wrote: From: Oliver Webber <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [earlym-l] All-gut violins? To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, 1 April, 2010, 14:26 I expect I'm missing something obvious - but I see that someone has replied to this on the lute list; what I can't see is how to join the discussion! I don't particularly want to subscribe to an e-mail list for a topic I have only occasional interest in (no offence!) but since someone has responded to my comments there I'd love the chance to respond. Could anyone help me out with this? Thanks Oliver On 26 Mar, 02:18, Oliver Webber <[1][email protected]> wrote: > This is a subject close to my heart - in the UK and other parts of > Europe (Amsterdam, France) there are quite a few period instrument > ensembles which insist on proper historical stringing now. > For music pre-1660 or so, this unequivocally means all gut (and > nothing else!); between 1660 and about 1750, we know wound strings > existed, but their incorporation into general use seems to have patchy > at best, and varied a lot from one country to another. Certainly some > musicians were still using all gut in the middle of the 18th century > (we know this from sales records). > Another issue is the tension profile of the strings - but I'd better > not get into that now. If you're curious, have a look atwww.themonteverdiviolins.org;the site is desperately in need of > updating (sorry!) but there's a link there to an article about strings > I wrote which might be of interest. > > Anyway - to answer the OP's question, I frequently play with ensembles > where the strings are nothing but gut: my own group, the Monteverdi > String Band, does so, as does (at least for earlier repertoire) the > Gabrieli Consort. It's now easier to get good quality thick gut > strings which make this viable, and the sound, especially in a large > ensemble, can be thrilling. > > For early 18th century repertoire, ensembles which use historical > stringing might use wound C's for cellos and violas, and wound Gs for > violins - if made to the right proportions (ie, plenty of gut and a > nice thin silver winding!). With the right tension profile this is > still quite a different sound from the "old-fashioned" (ie 70s and > 80s!) so-called baroque stringing - very light, with lots of thin > wound strings. The sound is much more weighty and substantial, and > articulation comes to the fore. > > As for the issue of avoiding the G string - I believe this is > mentioned by Praetorius,, c.1620. But interestingly Monteverdi does > use it in the Vespers (in the Sonata sopra Sancta Maria) in several > bars of melodic writing for the 2nd violin. This is most unusual! > > A good, thick, gut G is perfectly playable, and adds a gritty quality > to the violin sound in toto; it helps the blend in ensembles, but is > not particularly good for playing melodically (though fine in chordal > writing). It's no coincidence in my view that we first see composers > writing melodically for the G string in the 1780s or thereabouts - by > which time the wound G was an established feature, and also the > tension profile had changed so it was in any case a lighter, thinner > string. > > Regards > > Oliver Webber > > PS there are also a handful of lutenists over here who use all gut - > Fred Jacobs, Jake Heringman, Richard Sweeney, David van Ooijen to name > a few. > > On 25 Mar, 16:43, John Howell <[2][email protected]> wrote: > > > > > At 9:29 AM -0700 3/25/10, howard posner wrote: > > > >An American professional lutenist remarked on the lutenet: > > > >> I've yet to play in an orchestra where the violins used all gut > > >> strings on all four strings, as was the practice of the time > > > >I'm curious whether fiddler correspondents here have had a different > > >experience, or have a different view. > > > Depends on how he defines "all gut." Metal-wound strings came into > > use as early as the 17th century, although I would never claim that > > they were used universally. And I've read that composers of > > Monteverdi's generation tended to avoid the lowest string, because > > the thick gut gave a dull tone--and the music seems to support that, > > at least in part. > > > I still use "all gut" strings (meaning gut-core) on my modern violin > > and viola, except for the top string on each instrument, but not pure > > gut. I simply don't like metal-core strings (nor do my > > instruments!), and I've never seen any good reason to try the various > > synthetics. (Yeah, I'm conservative.) > > > But when I was playing a semi-"baroqued" violin, I used pure gut E, A > > & D, but a metal-wound gut G. If that's what he means, then I guess > > I wasn't a purist enough for him! Is he implying that as a lutenist > > he uses pure gut strings from top to bottom? I don't think I've ever > > seen THAT, either. > > > I have tried a pure gut C on viola da gamba, and predictably it did > > have a duller sound than the C with aluminum wound on gut. I have > > never tried it on the lower two strings. And I do prefer the sound > > of silver winding on the bottom strings, rather than the less > > expensive silver-plated. > > > John > > > -- > > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > > Virginia Tech Department of Music > > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > > Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 > > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > > (mailto:[3][email protected])[4]http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell /howell.html > > > "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition > > of jazz musicians.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - _______________________________________________ earlym-l mailing list [5][email protected] [6]https://lists.wu-wien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/earlym-l -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. https://lists.wu-wien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/earlym-l To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
