I have some experience with both 19th C. guitars and modern classical
guitars. I find the main difference to be in the amount of sustain rather
than the volume. I think this is the result of fan bracing. As Christopher
pointed out, this bracing is not a new thing. 19th C. guitars with fan
bracing - ie some Panormo guitars - tend to sound very much like the modern
classical.
The poster who said that classical guitars will never fill a large hall
(soundwise) is quite correct - but somehow not relevant.
Joseph Mayes
On 11/1/10 10:54 AM, "Edward Mast" <[email protected]> wrote:
> It seems to me that the sound of an instrument should not be considered
> without considering the music it's playing. Composers generally are very
> aware of the sound of the instrument(s) for which they're writing. Some
> transcriptions work well, but many (in my opinion) don't. The modern
> classical guitar has repertory in which it sounds natural and very satisfying.
> Other repertory - written for lute or other instruments - does not sound
> natural or satisfying played on the guitar (again, in my opinion). Of course
> this has to do not only with the different sounds of the instruments, but with
> the techniques employed in playing them. And so on with all instruments.
> On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Bruno Correia wrote:
>
>> Christopher,
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree entirely with your coments. Classical guitars are very tense
>> instruments, nails are required if you want to play with good volume.
>> Btw they never fill a big hall (soundwise)...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/11/1 Christopher Wilke <[1][email protected]>
>>
>> There are a lot of myths in the guitar community about how and why
>> the modern instrument came about. The thought that the modern
>> guitar is to the 19th century guitar what the modern piano is to a
>> fortepiano has been repeated so often that people believe it.
>> A modern classical guitar is not at all loud. Try comparing the
>> sound of a 19th century guitar without nails to a modern guitar
>> played without nails. The 19th century guitar will not only sound
>> louder, but balanced (assuming the guitar is decent). The modern
>> guitar will sound weak and muddy with a very boomy bass and
>> virtually no treble definition. The 19th century guitar is
>> therefore actually the louder of the two instruments.
>> The key ingredient to the modern guitar's sound is fingernails. I
>> believe that in order to get more volume, performers started playing
>> "standard" 19th century guitars with nails, but found the sound
>> unpleasantly strident. (Aguado, for example, used nails. His duo
>> partner, Sor, however, did not.) The solution came in making a
>> bigger body, which did not add volume in itself - it merely mellowed
>> out the tone to allow for nail playing. Fan bracing was also used
>> to make the timbre less pingy, but this was nothing new; it had been
>> used on baroque lutes long before. All of these developments took
>> place with gut strings. Nylon strings came about post-WWII and
>> allowed for greater string tension and more forceful playing.
>> I personally enjoy the sound of a modern classical. It makes a
>> beautiful and effective solo instrument.
>> Chris
>> Christopher Wilke
>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>> [2]www.christopherwilke.com
>>
>> --- On Mon, 11/1/10, Jelma van Amersfoort <[3][email protected]> wrote:
>>> From: Jelma van Amersfoort <[4][email protected]>
>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: 19th C guitar
>>> To: "Suzanne Angevine" <[5][email protected]>
>>> Cc: "Lute List" <[6][email protected]>
>>
>>> Date: Monday, November 1, 2010, 4:28 AM
>>
>>> I think making the body bigger
>>> doesn't automatically make the guitar
>>> louder. It mostly emphasizes the lower
>>> harmonics/fundamentals and the
>>> bass side of the guitar. I think they were after a
>>> different (darker,
>>> more homogenous) timbre rather than a louder sound, in the
>>> late 19th
>>> and early 20th century. Is a very interesting question, but
>>> also hard
>>> because there are so many different styles of guitar making
>>> in that
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Early 19th century guitars work as well in halls as modern
>>> classical
>>> guitars, I find, but by different means: they (most of
>>> them) seem to
>>> be more treble-like, and more 'piercing' compared to (most)
>>> modern
>>> classical guitars.
>>>
>>> Hartelijke groeten, Jelma van Amersfoort
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Suzanne Angevine
>>
>>> <[7][email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In that same excellent concert the second half was
>>> played on a replica of a
>>>> 19th century guitar, the kind with a smaller body and
>>> simple lute-like
>>>> barring. I'm struck by how beautiful, bright, and
>>> clear the sound of these
>>>> instruments is, especially when playing music from
>>> that period. (I heard a
>>>> fine Carulli sonata.)
>>>>
>>>> So what were builders and players after that they made
>>> the body bigger and
>>>> the barring stronger on modern classical guitars?
>>>>
>>>> Suzanne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>
>>>> [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[email protected]
>> 2. http://www.christopherwilke.com/
>> 3. mailto:[email protected]
>> 4. mailto:[email protected]
>> 5. mailto:[email protected]
>> 6. mailto:[email protected]
>> 7. mailto:[email protected]
>> 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
>
>
