Bear in mind the date - 1701. Certainly later in the 18th century large lutes were quite common (ie string lengths over 72cm, typically around 76cm but even larger), but extant examples of 11 course (either renecked etc instruments or new around then), contemporary measurement and iconography seem to suggest 70-72cm as usual for a 'proper common' lute around this time. I think my calculation of the smaller lutes was simply working back from this as the basis. Clearly they were pretty rare even then so few, if any, might have survived. I'll dig out my working papers.
MH PS the only statement (singular) I recanted was that R's musical compositions were of 'negligible' quality .............. --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Edward Martin <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edward Martin <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel von Radolt To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Edward Martin" <[email protected]>, "Bernd Haegemann" <[email protected]>, "Christopher Wilke" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 15:49 Thanks to all who have responded to this inquiry. Yes, the recording is certainly pleasant, and I do think it could be worth the effort to perform a concerto or 2. Martyn, you say that you have recanted some of the statements you wrote in the article...I agree, in that it is worthy music. Back to my question of the mensurs of the lutes required to perform this music...... Andreas states the pitches of the top strings are: Lute 1 f1 Lute 2 eb1 Lute 3 c1 And he further states the Vienna a1 was in this time around 470 Hz! Small Baroque lutes are known, f.ex. Andreas Berr 1699 with 65.1 petit jeu and 72.0 grand jeu. Your size chart provides: Small 54 cm Middle 61 cm Proper common 72 cm If a is indeed 470 in Vienna at the time, 54 cm still seems quite short for a soprano in f1. I haven't done the calculations, but you may be correct. Are there any icongraphical examples, or surviving instruments, of very small baroque lutes? There certainly are surviving examples of large baroque lutes; the Edlinger in South Dakota comes to mind at 82 cm. ed At 09:09 AM 11/7/2010, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > You are quite right to take me to task me for pronouncing too hard on von Radolt's compositions: in fact I recanted quite some time ago(see later FoMRHI and, indeed, this list!)! As you say, not the deepest of stuff but pleasant enough and a change from much of the lute composers' works at the time. > > MH > > --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Christopher Wilke <[1][email protected]> wrote: > > From: Christopher Wilke <[2][email protected]> > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel von Radolt > To: [3][email protected], "Edward Martin" <[[email protected]>, "Martyn Hodgson" <[5][email protected]>, "Bernd Haegemann" <[[email protected]> > Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 14:41 > > Bernd, > > Thanks for the link. And thanks very much to Martyn for writing the article. Very interesting and informative stuff. I wonder why Radolt has received so little attention. > > On one point, though, I can't agree with Martyn: von Radolt's music is not of "negligible musical worth." I won't argue that it is the deepest stuff, but it is pleasant to listen to and there are some surprises to keep you interested. Overall, I would recommend the recording that Ed mentioned by Ars Antiqua Austria although I find the violin to be a bit too forward in the recorded mix. They definitely did not follow Radolt's explicit instruction that "the soprano part that is the small lute must at all times be set strongly" and tripled in volume in relation to the other parts. (I suppose they were after an "overall composite sound.") > > Actually, I know very little about this recording. I bought it on iTunes about a year ago and there is no booklet (shame on them!). I could hear that there was more than one lute on there, but the performers' names are not even listed online. How hard is it to include a digital booklet, people? > > Chris > > > > Christopher Wilke > Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > www.christopherwilke.com > > > --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Bernd Haegemann <<[7]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>[8...@s ymbol4.de> wrote: > > > From: Bernd Haegemann <<[9]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>[10]bh@ symbol4.de> > > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel von Radolt > > To: <[11]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] outh.edu>[12][email protected], "Edward Martin" <<[13]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> [[email protected]>, "Martyn Hodgson" <<[15]http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo. co.uk>[16][email protected]> > > Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 4:40 AM > > > > > See my paper in FoMRHI Quarterly No > > 44 July 1986 C-737 : 'Von Radolt's > > > instructions to lute players (Wien > > 1701)' > > > > > > This gives a translation of the > > instructions and a commentary on the > > > lute sizes/pitches required. > > > > > > > > > > see > > > > <[17]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-044.pdf>[18]http:// www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-044.pdf > > > > > > B > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > <[19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html>[20]http:// www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [[email protected] voice: (218) 728-1202 [22]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name [23]http://www.myspace.com/edslute -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 14. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 15. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 16. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 17. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-044.pdf 18. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-044.pdf 19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 21. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 22. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 23. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
