Or you could just use the different colours as "place markers". When I
first began playing the Baroque lute, I had a gimped string in seventh
position, and both its sound and colour helped me know where I was.
Now, I only have red loaded basses, so I don't have such an indicator.
I imagine that may be what harpist use the colours for (unless they
indicate differences in tension). I believe Dan Larson also makes
different coloured Lyons for use as position markers.
$
Incidentally, how many of you have some sort of position markings on
5th and 7th frets. I know of several players, who have their lute maker
add a bone marker directly on the side of the fret board, but I put a
very small dot of white marker in that position. In this, I am just
copying what I saw on someone else's lute.
$
By the way, I didn't feel that loaded Venice strings went so well
with the old nylgut, when I heard it on a friend's lute. It may not be
the same with the new nylgut; but the difference in tonal colour
between the coldness of the old nylgut and the warmth of the loaded gut
was just too great. As a minimum, it is necessary (in my opinion) to
have gut octaves, with loaded gut basses (Venice Meane octaves with
Venice loaded being my ideal); well perhaps this tonal and visual
colour will be better with New Nylgut, as Ed's report on the Baroque
list seems to indicate that it is quite different.
$
Nevertheless, it might be the case that composite Harp string basses
compliment well the New Nylgut (both in tonal and visual colour), for
those who want to stay with synthetics, and yet who want to rid
themselves of wirewounds. It always struck me that carbon treble
strings were rather unpleasant in sound, and indeed Savarez themselves
say that the thicker the KF string, the more it sounds like gut.
$
Regards
Anthony
---- Message d'origine ----
>De : [email protected]
>A : [email protected]
>Objet : [LUTE] Re: KF Harp strings and other types
>Date : 12/12/2010 00:30:33 CET
>
>
> The great thing about harp strings is that they come in three colors
-
> natural, black and red.
> You could string your basses all in red harp string so that they look
like
> the renaissance loaded guts ;-)
>
> trj
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]>
> To: Anthony Hind <[email protected]>
> Cc: lute <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 4:18 am
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF Harp strings and other types
>
>
>
>
> Thank you Anthony,
>
>
>
> I think when you say 'below 0.95 the strings are composite' you mean
>
> the reverse - below 0.95 means thinner than this.
>
>
>
> I would only consider using these KF strings for basses and look
>
> forward to Saverez's reply - if they do....
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> Martyn
>
> '
>
> --- On Sat, 11/12/10, Anthony Hind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]>
>
> Subject: Re : KF Harp strings and other types
>
> To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>
>
> Cc: [email protected]
>
> Date: Saturday, 11 December, 2010, 9:02
>
>
>
> Dear Martyn
>
> I will send your message to Savarez; but I think it will take
>
> time for them to answer.
>
> Carlos says that below 0.95 the strings are composite, above no.
>
> I have no direct experience with carbon, except as a listener. I Know
>
> Jacob Heringman used KF on his 5th course, and Martin has done so
too,
>
> with some success. I believe that for the fourth course and above,
the
>
> density of the monofilament KF is too dense and makes for too thin a
>
> string. I know players and lute makers can compensate for this, but
New
>
> Nylgut is surely a better synthetic option.
>
> I believe, below the 5th course the monofilament was too damped, but
>
> perhaps the composite harps strings behave better, and may be this
was
>
> what Stephen Gottlieb had tried and found fairly satisfactory. This
>
> could perhaps allow players to avoid wirewounds in situations where
>
> they feel they can't use gut.
>
> I don't think, however, we should pretend that any of these strings
>
> will quite have the warmth and expressivity of gut, even if the
>
> "touche" of a good player may well be far more important than
strings.
>
> I still feel that string choices can make that small expressive
>
> difference.
>
> I do feel that how strings are combined, can almost be as important
as
>
> the strings themselves. I have heard loaded strings combined with the
>
> old nylgut and neither then sounded very good. The old nylgut sounded
>
> too cold, in comparison with the warm loaded strings. Perhaps, the
new
>
> nylgut might work better, but I honestly think that as a minimum
loaded
>
> gut should be combined with gut octaves, and that the type of gut
>
> octave chosen is also important.
>
> Sorry to all for having apparently made a break away thread from the
>
> original. I have been having computer problems, and became a little
>
> confused after a number of hours trying to put things right.
>
> Regards
>
> Anthony
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> De : Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]>
>
> A : [email protected]; Anthony Hind <[email protected]>
>
> Cc : [email protected]
>
> Envoye le : Sam 11 decembre 2010, 9h 35min 28s
>
> Objet : Re: KF Harp strings and other types
>
> Dear Anthony,
>
>
>
> Many thanks for your trouble and, yes, I'd like to take up your kind
>
> offer of asking Saverez (in perfect French!):
>
>
>
> 1. Are these 'new' strings the same as the old KFG? And does KFN
relate
>
> to the newness (nouveau) of the new strings?
>
>
>
> 2. Are the strings less than .0.95mm in diameter monofilament and
only
>
> thicker ones composite?
>
>
>
> 3. What is the density of the composite strings (to allow for
stringing
>
> calculations)? What is the density of the monofilament strings?
>
>
>
> I'd also like to ask for the modulus if elasticity etc but fear
they'd
>
> freak out!
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> Martyn
>
>
>
> From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]>
>
> Subject: KF Harp strings and other types
>
> To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>,
>
> [email protected]
>
> Cc: [email protected]
>
> Date: Friday, 10 December, 2010, 23:52
>
>
>
> Dear Martyn and Martin
>
> It is true that Carlos' original message was slightly ambiguous,
>
> but I have asked him to clarify this question, and he tells me that
>
> between KFN33 et KFN91 the strings are still simplex monofilament, it
>
> is only below the diameter of 0,95mm (KFN95) that strings are
>
> composite. He goes on to say that in his experience the lowest limit
>
> for lutes is KFN140.
>
> Carlos sends you his friendly regards
>
> Best wishes
>
> Anthony
>
> PS If you have more detailed questions, I will try to ask them to
>
> Savarez.
>
> Thank you for this Martin and Anthony. These strings are interesting
as
>
> a further alternative to loaded, wire wound and the 'spring' string;
>
> especially for those with a large number of instruments to string.
>
> I looked into these Saverez KF strings some time ago (are you sure
>
> they're 'new' out?) and had reports at the time that
>
> they
>
> were simply
>
> PVF(carbon) strings like any other of the same ilk. I'd be grateful
for
>
> any clarification you can
>
> offer.
>
> Martin, you say they only become multi strand above 0.95mm dia but in
>
> Anthony's message he gives someone using thinner KF strings with the
>
> implication that they are these new multi-strand type. 'an example of
>
> the stringing he uses on a lute or 7c Vihuela : g' KFN33 - d' KFN43 -
>
> a KFN52 - f KFN66-33 - c KFN84 - 43,5 - G KFN 112 - 57 - F KFN126 -
>
> 62.' Is it possible that the 'new' aspect of these KF strings are
that
>
> Saverez now makes these multistrand strings at smaller diameters?
>
> What's the signoficance of the N in KFN? Does it mean new/nouveau
type
>
> of KF strings?
>
> The Saverez website is next to useless only giving marketing blurb
and
>
> lists of available sizes but says the strings are made from
'composite
>
> fibres' which again
>
> implies that all sizes are multi strand. They also
>
> make the claim that they are new but perhaps they simply haven't
>
> updated an
>
> old website?
>
> ALLIANCE KF COMPOSITE, Strings for harp
>
> A real innovation! This strings are manufactured from composites
fibres
>
> A production which requires fine and sophisticated technologies that
>
> only Savarez could implement until now.
>
> Thanks to the technologies, Savarez can produce strings which
>
> geometrical qualities are perfect and which resist to the tensions
>
> required by the harp. Many years of work and a focusing of
complicated
>
> technologies were necessary to obtain such a result.
>
> A long work on the molecules, some molecular relationships and the
rate
>
> of "cristalinity" allow Savarez to obtain an elongation and an
>
> elasticity identical to the ones of the gut.
>
> The density of these strings is extremely close to the one of the
gut,
>
> so
>
> the comparison takes more value. So though gut strings still are
>
> very popular, Alliance KF strings have a perfect alternative sound
>
> for
>
> those who wish to take profit of gut sound and synthetic strings
>
> advantages.
>
> Martyn
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I have been using these KF strings for some years. The smallest
>
> diameter is .95mm, but this is the equivalent of a gut string of
about
>
> 1.07mm. The one I use is "KF95A", but I think the "A" just refers to
>
> the fact that it is a 2m length. It works well as a 5th course on a
>
> renaissance lute (with an octave - I have not tried unison). It looks
>
> more like a gut string, opaque rather than clear. I have not tried
the
>
> thicker strings, but it seems that it might be worth a try - I think
>
> Jacob Heringman may have done so. I think the next size down is
.91mm,
>
> but it is a plain monofilament PVF string. I think some people are
>
> using them for a unison 5th course.
>
> Best
>
> wishes,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
