Indeed. I doubt conclusive evidence of Vivaldi's intent for his chamber works for "leuto" exists. I'm OK with that. If nothing else, it provides for geeky e-mail exchanges that I actually quite enjoy.
Best, Eugene > -----Original Message----- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Martyn Hodgson > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:34 AM > To: 'Lute Dmth'; Eugene C. Braig IV > Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 - which instrument? > > > Thanks Eugene. > > I don't think it impossible that the mandora was the instrument for > which Vivaldi conceived this work - just unlikely - especially when > there was a lute type instrument known as leuto around in Italy at the > time. As already said my reasons are to do with dates of mandora > development as well as reasons of tessitura. > rgds and bst wshs fr 2011 > > Martyn > --- On Wed, 5/1/11, Eugene C. Braig IV <brai...@osu.edu> wrote: > > From: Eugene C. Braig IV <brai...@osu.edu> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: RV93 - which instrument? > To: "'Lute Dmth'" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Wednesday, 5 January, 2011, 16:10 > > Greetings Martyn et alia, > Reply interspersed below. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > > Behalf Of Martyn Hodgson > > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 4:39 AM > > To: Lute Dmth > > Subject: [LUTE] RV93 - which instrument? > > > > The relatively low pitching of the mandora makes it an unlikely > > candidate as the instrument Vivaldi conceived for RV93 and also > for RV > > 82 and 85 (all composed in the 1720s?): not only because of the > > resulting unidiomatic high tessitura of these 'leuto' pieces on > the > > mandora but also because there is no evidence of this instrument > being > > known in Italy around this time. Bear in mind that, although the > large > > continuo gallichon in A (or B) had been around in > > Bohemia/Silesia/Bavaria from the 1680s, its smaller cousin the > mandora > > tuned a forth higher (also, confusingly, often called gallichon) > was > > only developed during the early 18th century with peak popularity > in > > these and some other (generally North German) States in the 1740s > to > > 70s. > [Eugene C. Braig IV] Musing upon the possibility of mandora is not > without > reason. The chamber works for "leuto" were dedicated to Wrtby, a > Bohemian > noble. While I certainly haven't had the benefit of inspecting the > manuscripts (and certainly don't know a thing about paper even if I > had), I > have also read they were drafted on paper of Bohemian origin. It is > assumed > Vivaldi wrote these pieces while he visited Prague in 1730. While not > conclusive, I do think those points make at least a fair case for > mandora. > While I have yet to hear them performed on mandora, I wouldn't point my > finger and shout "HIP foul!" if I did. I suspect I would even enjoy > the > hearing. Really, with nothing of the solo part but a melody line, I > can't > imagine it would be too difficult for any competent performer to leave > first > position and realize these convincingly on mandora. If written during > a > short-term visit to a foreign land at the request of a Bohemian noble > for an > instrument with which Vivaldi couldn't have had much familiarity at > home, I > wouldn't expect Vivaldi to have intimate familiarity with composing in > that > instrument's idiomatic range. > Liefeld (and I suspect others) also point out that the trios were > numbered > "2" and "5", leaving the tantalizing possibility that several other > such > pieces are out there (perhaps a cycle of 6?). Purely speculation on my > part, but if these only existed in manuscript for the benefit of a > noble > dedicatee, and if that noble played them on mandora, I wouldn't be > surprised > if those that Wrtby enjoyed playing got played, moved about as needed, > and > eventually lost, while those that he found unidiomatic might have been > shelved and preserved for our later discovery; i.e., perhaps there are > "leuto" works in this cycle that are more idiomatic to mandora and that > have > been lost. Again, purely speculation and (weighing nothing) worth > exactly > its cyber-weight in any precious metal you choose. > Whatever, I really doubt Vivaldi would have taken offense to these > being > performed on whatever lute-alike, especially considering he was willing > to > rearrange his own works or to jot alternate soloist designations on his > manuscripts. > > It is much more likely that the instrument required is the 18th > > century Italian 'leuto' (sometimes but by no means always in its > > arcileuto configuration) tuned, I and others have suggested, like > the > > old lute in a nominal G (but sometimes A); an E tuning has also > been > > proposed - tho' this is most unlikely in view of the string length > of > > these instruments. The general size of these instruments can be > deduced > > from contemporary iconography and there are good early/mid 18th > century > > Italian paintings showing lutes being played (often just 7 course > > instruments - perhaps even old lutes?) suggesting string lengths > close > > to old G lutes (ie generally low/mid 60s cm). A number of these > > instruments survive in modern collections and often in a pristine > state > > by makers such as Radice. > [Eugene C. Braig IV] I have been fortunate to inspect a couple of these > pieces in person. I am particularly fond of Presbler's work in this > field, > although it came a few decades after Vivaldi. In general, the handful > of > extant pieces seem to imply they were much more common/popular > following > Vivaldi's death, although there is an early (and somewhat smallish) > 5-course > piece by one of the Sellas family (late 17th c.). > Relevant to the discussion at hand, a new and excellent recording of > the > bulk of Vivaldi's lute and mandolin works was recently released on > Brilliant > Classics (only the whopping grosso RV 558 is omitted in favor of a > realization of RV 780 on harpsichord). I ordered my copy following > Christmas, and it coincidentally arrived just yesterday. > Instrumentation > follows the recently popular status quo: RV 82, 85, and 93 on archlute > by > Diego Cantalupi; RV 425 and 532 on 6-course mandolino/i played by Mauro > Squillante and list-occasional and mandolin scholar extraordinaire > Davide > Rebuffa; and RV 540 on D-minor lute by mandora scholar Pietro Prosser. > The > works with archlute are performed one instrument per part without > keyboard > instruments in continuo, and I find myself really liking the clarity > that > instrumentation provides. > FYI: [3]http://www.brilliantclassics.com/release.aspx?id=FM00350813 > Enjoy! > Eugene > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute- > a...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute- > a...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 3. http://www.brilliantclassics.com/release.aspx?id=FM00350813 > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
